Hi all,

 

Wishing to fly from EGSS (London Stansted) to CYYT (St Johns, Canada), using NAT TRACK F, entering at MALOT, exiting at YAY.

 

Drawing a single line direct route without any waypoints between these airports result in a distance of 2020 or so NM. However, flying the above NAT TRACK from end-to-end gives a distance of over 2300 NM. An extra distance of 300 or more NM. Mainly, because the last two waypoints (HECKK and YAY) are situated quite off the intended course, and after reaching YAY, a 90 degree left turn, followed by hundreds of miles flying south will take us finally to CYYT.

 

However, IF it is possible to drop at least the last two waypoints, the distance could be reduced by at least 200 NM. I would like to know if airlines usually fly a NAT TRACK from the very first waypoint to the very last, or is it "possible" to just simply exit the track earlier? Flying from Stansted to St Johns (but in general, from Britain to Newfoundland and Nova Scotia) would not necessaily be that long if some of the last waypoints of the NAT TRACK were simply ignored. My question is, if it's a common practice or not at all.

 

Thanks for your inputs.

I would recommend seeing if you can find a real life flight in flightaware between the two airports (or connecting Stansted with an airfield similar in proximity to CYYT) to see the flown route depicted on their map.

It's been a while since I have flown Atlantic crossings, since I mostly fly short hauls in the NGX, but I was an avid North Atlantic flyer for the past few years, and I would always fly the complete NAT track to completion. But my destinations were always in the Northeast U.S., or Toronto, and it appears the NAT crossings were specifically designed with those locations in mind.

If you wish to follow the NAT track you cannot omit flying some of the waypoints. However you do not need to fly a NAT track to cross the Atlantic Ocean. If you draw a great circle from EGSS to CYYT you will find that it is significantly further to the south than the NAT track you are showing (which I assume is todays NAT track)?. You can just file your flightplan with the coordinates that you wish to pass instead of filing for a NAT track. But ofcourse that is a little bit more complicated since you would need a Atlantic AT 01N (H) chart. Only trying to help, but something like 51*N in the beginning and 48*N in the end of the route seems valid, but look it up yourself ^_^

Okay, so what I understand is that one does not have to fly across the Atlantic via a NAT TRACK. However, if they file a NAT TRACK then it's mandatory to fly it from its first waypoint to the last. Yes, the route seen above is built using today's tracks, and indeed, increases the distance by hundreds of miles. So I will look for a realworld flightplant for the route.

 

Thank you!

Yes if you file a NAT track in your flightplan you must follow it, since you don't really have much communications and traffic awareness (in the real world). But if you look at this flight from Madrid to Miami, it pretty much follows the great circle. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/IBE6123/history/20120412/1000Z/LEMD/KMIA Also take a look at the route which tells you the coordinates. Unfortunately I couldn't really figure out the routes on flightaware from flights "apparrently" following NAT tracks.

Thanks for the input Thomas!

NAT track provide you the best winds, and alternative airports coverage. You must fly whole NAT track (ok, you can divert in case of failure) because of aircraft sequencing. In sim, you can do whatever you want

 

Here is CYYT-EGSS, maybe you can fly reverse, you should look at depp and app charts is it compatible:

 

NOVEP 4800N 05000W 5000N 04000W 5100N 03000W 5200N 02000W LIMRI XETBO EVRIN UL607 NUMPO UP2 OKESI Y3 BEDEK

A Month ago a took a hand held gps with me onboard AMS-SFB / MIA-AMS. The outcome of the route did raise some questions like yours too. Like why heading to the US from Europe we flew way more north than the great circle and back to AMS from MIA we almost flew straght to AMS.

 

Have a look at this:

I checked with one of our dispatchers and he said that the NAT tracks are more often used for flights that go further into Canada or the US. He was not sure if ATC would give you a direct segment off of the track. Below is the routing we got, not flying the tracks:

 

EGSS BUZA7R BUZAD T420 WELIN UT420 TNT UL28 PENIL UL70 BAGSO..

DOGAL..5420N..5330N..5140N..4850N..NOVEP..CYYT

A Month ago a took a hand held gps with me onboard AMS-SFB / MIA-AMS. The outcome of the route did raise some questions like yours too. Like why heading to the US from Europe we flew way more north than the great circle and back to AMS from MIA we almost flew straght to AMS.

 

Top one is NAT, bottom one is custom track. They are using many parameters in dispatch office to make best route (distance, winds, type of aircraft, certificates, alternations, cost index...), so for one flight that is via NAT, for other flight thats via custom route.

 

Do not forget NAT tracks are one-way airways, so you cannot fly eastbound when westbound tracks are active and vice versa.

Top one is NAT, bottom one is custom track. They are using many parameters in dispatch office to make best route (distance, winds, type of aircraft, certificates, alternations, cost index...), so for one flight that is via NAT, for other flight thats via custom route.

 

Do not forget NAT tracks are one-way airways, so you cannot fly eastbound when westbound tracks are active and vice versa.

 

North Atlantic

ABC/North Atlantic Tracks and valid altitudes on-line between 2300-0100z, valid 1130-1900z.

XYZ/North Atlantic Tracks and valid altitudes on-line between 1200-1400z, valid 0100-0800z.

North Atlantic

ABC/North Atlantic Tracks and valid altitudes on-line between 2300-0100z, valid 1130-1900z.

XYZ/North Atlantic Tracks and valid altitudes on-line between 1200-1400z, valid 0100-0800z.

 

We need registration for that site :)

https://pilotweb.nas...common/nat.html For the Entry/Exit points as well as coordinates for the tracks and FL's available.

 

http://www.jetplan.c...s/ntfasig12.gif A weather chart to see how the weather is like, on or near the current tracks.

Sorry about that, here is a good free site:

 

 

https://www.notams.faa.gov/dinsQueryWeb/

I almost read the posts to help out, but I kept getting distracted by the gears grinding in my head:

 

NAT = North Atlantic Track

 

North Atlantic Track Tracks? How does one enter these into the FMC Computer? Can the FMS System handle them?

 

 

 

Sorry. In all seriousness, people have provided good resources. When I plan, I choose the NAT first (choose the one with the best wind), and then create a route to and from that NAT. Better yet (as mentioned), just jank one off of FlightAware.

 

For the record, when non-radar (90% of the ocean crossing), you're not going to get shortcuts. They're running positions based on calculations, not visuals like with radar. Pushing the margin of error is inadvisable.