C210 - Does a real 210 land like this?

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

This was probably my most anticipated airplane next to the King Air. Neither are still on my system.

 

You removed the KingAir? That's a Bernt Stoll airplane. He blew me away with his C337...amazed at the FDE. What didn't you like about the KingAir?

[Guest BeaverDriver]

The flight dynamics are fabulous. Really good. Bernt's contribution was outstanding. Unfortunately that's where it ends. I have the same failure as many others do with the Avionics, where they suddenly go into full test mode and the only way to get it back is to recycle the Avionics switch. Extremely annoying at altitude, potentially deadly on an IFR approach near minimums (virtually speaking of course). The Avidyne and 530 (?? - can't remember what the Primary Navigation Display is, it's been a while) are dressed up default GPS units with little or no more functionality than that. On the EADI you can get a Distance readout for the GPS, as long as you have a VOR tuned into NAV 1! That's wrong. Period. If you aren't within range of a VOR station (doesn't matter which one - anyone will do) then you lose your GPS Distance information (not your DME distance - that IS to a VOR, but GPS is independant of any VOR station, or it's supposed to be). There were 2 or 3 other things that escape me now, but what really got me was that Carenado were (once again) made aware of these issues and *chose* to do nothing about them. Yes, they fixed some things, but the electronics/avionics glitch is a major deal. If I were flying a plane IRL that did that, it wouldn't fly again until that were fixed. Yeah, this is a sim, but I expect the developer to at least *try* to fix major bugs like that. So yeah, it's gone.

[fppilot 4,350]

Wow! I've logged just over 40 hours in the C90B and only experienced avionics issues twice with the C90, both times on startup, Cycling the master avionics switch then is no problem. I have a host of other third party aircraft and seem to have higher overall quality and less issues with the Carenado models.

 

So what do you fly?

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Carenado shied away from avionics for years. Could be some growing pains.

[tttocs 301]

The flight dynamics are fabulous. Really good. Bernt's contribution was outstanding. Unfortunately that's where it ends.

 

That's harsh. There is a lot to like in the King Air - and yes some things to be annoyed at - but the good stuff certainly doesn't end at the excellent FDE.

 

I have the same failure as many others do with the Avionics, where they suddenly go into full test mode and the only way to get it back is to recycle the Avionics switch.

 

I've got a fair number of hours on mine, and I've only had this happen once. Even then it wasn't all the Avionics, it was just EADH and EHSI as I recall. Of course I wouldn't fly IRL until I understood and corrected this problem after even one occurence, but this is FSX, not RL. Not trying to negate your experience, just offer that it doesn't happen to everyone on anything like a regular basis.

 

The Avidyne and 530 (?? - can't remember what the Primary Navigation Display is, it's been a while) are dressed up default GPS units with little or no more functionality than that.

 

I'm not a great fan of the Avidyne and would've preferred it to be easily replaceable with the RXP 530, but while it isn't a fully featured Avidyne unit, it isn't a default FSX GPS either (not that the default units are all that bad). Regardless, this kind of functionality is pretty much the norm for GA planes with GPS units in them, even from other well-regarded developers like Milviz and RealAir. The other unit is a 430, and is replaced in mine with the RXP 430 anyway, with the supported integration. I would far rather a vendor support the detailed RXP units (which I can use again and again in my aircraft) than having them bump up the price on a plane just to pay for them re-inventing the wheel.

 

On the EADI you can get a Distance readout for the GPS, as long as you have a VOR tuned into NAV 1! That's wrong. Period.

 

Yes, of course this is wrong, and this should be corrected. I haven't flown the KA in some time, being pre-occupied with other aircraft, but I honestly never noticed this problem (I'll have to look again), but for me this is obviously a detail, not a showstopper, as I look to the GPS unit for this info more than the EADI, especially in the normal VC views. What I do use is the DME readout, and I know that works.

 

There were 2 or 3 other things that escape me now, but what really got me was that Carenado were (once again) made aware of these issues and *chose* to do nothing about them.

 

I guess this is the crux of the matter. I have a number of recent Carenado planes, I like all of them, and absolutely love several of them. Yet they're all flawed in niggling little ways, and I know that this drives some to distraction as some of the details seem like they could be easily fixed. Some vendors continue to refine their planes, while with Carenado you're probably going to get 2 or 3 patches and then you're done. Yes I wish this wasn't so, yet on balance I still find their planes to be of high value and in some aspects even class leaders.

 

The C90 gets a lot right, some things wrong and is still a blast to fly. I recommend it, but also recommend that you look through this forum to see EXACTLY what works and doesn't work and decide for yourself how much these things matter.

 

Just so we're clear - I respect BeaverDriver's opinion and am not trying to engage in a point, counterpoint wrangle. Just wanted to offer another point of view.

 

Scott

[tttocs 301]

Yes I wish this wasn't so, yet on balance I still find their planes to be of high value and in some aspects even class leaders.

 

BTW, just in case someone thinks I'm being an unabashed fanboi, that I wouldn't like to provide Carenado some incentive to improve, and on the off chance that they actually look at this subforum occasionally there are a number of older Carenado planes that I would buy if they kept up development and fixed some of the outstanding issues that have been left on the table.

 

Scott

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Hey Scott,

Please understand, I was (and am) speaking for myself only. For those who really like it - GREAT! I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I was asked about it, and I answered, but again, speaking for myself and not others.

 

I will take issue with one item you mentioned - that being that the avionics in Milviz and Real Air are not that much more functional. Dig into those a bit and you'll find they are far more advanced. If Carenado were more up front about that, then I wouldn't have an issue, but again the issue is with me, perhaps not with others. I do agree with you about making these aircraft more RXP friendly. If he's not going to code the instruments, you should have the capability to go elsewhere for them. That's what happens IRL.

 

ffpilot & Scott - I had that failure on 5 out of my 6 flights. It could be a conflict with some system in there, but I've seen others reporting this as a more or less severe issue as well. My point is more that Carenado was made aware of it, but has chosen to ignore it (and at this point, I believe they have moved on to other things so I doubt any fix is coming soon). Yes, this is only FSX, but I guess for us RW pilots (and perhaps ffpilot is, I don't know) immersion is everything. If I suddenly don't have any Avionics (and in a glass cockpit, if you lose your PFD and MFD, you have lost all but emergency backup systems by today's standards) repeatedly, that really kills it for me. It may not for you, and that's fine. And as I said, if it happens at FL250, it's a pain (in the FSX world). If it happens just above minima on a tight IFR approach in the mountains, you are in potentially a life threatening situation. Yeah, it is only FSX and the only thing that's going to get "killed" is the quality of your experience, but that's what it's all about for me. On reading the distance info - one thing an IFR pilot learns very early on is to keep the scan "tight". Vertigo is a constant threat and if you are taking your eyes away from your main flight/nav instruments in front of you and looking over to the middle of the panel for important info, that's not a good thing. At altitude, not a big deal. On an instrument RNAV approach, that becomes a much bigger deal, especially with the WAAS systems coming online now. Again though, it's more the fact that these things been reported (many times) but not word one from Carenado about fixing them. If that's all I, as a paying customer means to him, well maybe I can spend my money elsewhere. Again though my decision and my feelings on this. I don't pretend to impose that on anyone else.

 

ffpilot - I've recently been turned on to PMDG and am flying the J41 at the moment. I have the 737 package and will eventually "graduate" to that once I'm up to speed with the manuals. Otherwise Aerosoft makes a really good Twin Otter, and I do fly the Carenado 208 fairly routinely. At this point those are about it, but that's mainly because PMDG aircraft are systems heavy and you really need to stay current on them for the first while or getting back into them after a layoff means having to do some re-learning. They're a long way from what I flew IRL - Beavers, Otters and 185's :).

 

Glenn

[fppilot 4,350]

ffpilot & Scott - I had that failure on 5 out of my 6 flights. It could be a conflict with some system in there, but I've seen others reporting this as a more or less s

 

I would think that would be more the case. I keep a spreadsheet log, which makes it easy to do calculations. I've logged 19 flights for 40.5 hours in the C90. The only in-flight failures/freezes I have had have been of my Saitek Multi-Panel, which at those occurances was plugged (USB) into the non-powered ports of the Saitek Cessna Pro Flight Yoke. I've now added a separate, powered USB hub to cure that. BTW, for others reading this I will add that I ordered the separate power supply for the Saitek yoke's built in USB hub (not at all required for the yoke itself) and it was miserable, perceptibly providing less power to the Multi-Panel than when the yoke's USB hub was not powered. i.e the MP display was dimmer and partially inop.

 

The only C90 avionics issues have been on startup occasionally when the HSI fails to fully initialize. That's been the extent of it! A simple recycle of the master avionics switch cures it every time. Certainly not a show stopper on startup. I do have a newer, faster system, which I have detailed in my profile. It may be i7 tech, but has a medium level graphics card and is not a world class gaming machine.

 

I have the RXP 430 integrated into the panel and thus appreciate the Avidyne for other features, such as traffic, flight plan display, ability to display a different map perspective (range), and more convenience looking up NAV and airport information.

 

PMDG models are a totally different dimension from GA types represented by Carenado (and others). You can see from my sidebar profile that I had a deep involvement in VA and ATP types. PMDG took that to an incredible new level, and after a career-induced absence of several years from simulation I found it more challenging than I wished to move back and forth from GA to PMDG. Since I moved from FS9 to FSX upon installing a new system in early January I've logged 171 hours. That's slightly less than an hour a day. If I had time to fly 20 hours a week or more I'd likely be able to blend the two. At this point I'm sticking with GA and appreciating how much more models like the C90 and avionics like RXP provide than what I have experienced in the past.

[tttocs 301]

On the EADI you can get a Distance readout for the GPS, as long as you have a VOR tuned into NAV 1!

 

I really didn't recall seeing this, but I wanted to go back and check before responding fully, and:

 

Nope, I don't see it. In retrospect I assume you meant EHSI, since the EADI doesn't display either DME or waypoint distances (sorry I didn't catch that last night - it was a long day). My EHSI has no problem displaying distance to waypoint from the GPS with no VOR tuned or a different VOR turned or anything else. Doesn't matter what the waypoint is, the EHSI displays GPS distance, regardless of what Nav 1 is tuned to.

 

Yes, this is only FSX, but I guess for us RW pilots (and perhaps ffpilot is, I don't know) immersion is everything. If I suddenly don't have any Avionics (and in a glass cockpit, if you lose your PFD and MFD, you have lost all but emergency backup systems by today's standards) repeatedly, that really kills it for me.

 

Not sure what being a real world pilot has to do with this (and yes, I am one), but if stuff isn't working for you in FSX, it's not working and you have a valid complaint - we're in agreement here. My only point for those considering this plane (and obviously fppilot's point as well) was that I'm not having the problem other than so occasionally (once in my case) that it isn't a concern in the context of the sim. If this were a real world avionics failure, I'd have zero tolerance. It's not.

 

Have you contacted Carenado on this?

 

I will take issue with one item you mentioned - that being that the avionics in Milviz and Real Air are not that much more functional.

 

OK fair enough. I have the Milviz B55/E55, and RealAir's Lancair Legacy and both Dukes. I've played with the GPS's on all of these before replacing them with RXP units (which I prefer for many reasons, not the least of which is that they almost completely match real world units, making them excellent trainers), and they all look essentially the same to me, other than a few nits with display brightness. What functionality do you see from either of these vendors that's not in a recent Carenado?

 

Scott

[Guest BeaverDriver]

since the EADI doesn't display either DME or waypoint distances (sorry I didn't catch that last night - it was a long day).

 

It sure is supposed to, and does if you have a valid VOR station within range! It's supposed to display GPS info at all times, but it won't unless you have a VOR station tuned in on your #1 Nav. If yours doesn't at all, then you have a further bug that I've not seen. But yes, it is supposed to have distance info on it. That's part of what they do.

 

Have you contacted Carenado on this?

 

Two or three times, as mentioned.

 

What functionality do you see from either of these vendors that's not in a recent Carenado?

 

I'd have to dig out the manual for those units at work to describe the features that are missing from the Carenado units but present in the Milviz and Real Air's. I can't remember off hand what they all are. Things are rather hectic at work so I may not get to that however. If you have those machines, just do a comparison based on the manuals that accompany each machine.

 

was that I'm not having the problem other than so occasionally (once in my case) that it isn't a concern in the context of the sim. If this were a real world avionics failure, I'd have zero tolerance. It's not.

 

Fair enough. For me it is. Vivre la difference -_-

 

Glenn

[tttocs 301]

It sure is supposed to, and does if you have a valid VOR station within range! It's supposed to display GPS info at all times, but it won't unless you have a VOR station tuned in on your #1 Nav. If yours doesn't at all, then you have a further bug that I've not seen.

 

Where on the EADI do you see any distance displayed? Nothing I've seen indicates the EADI does, or should, display this info - either in the VC or in the C90 EFIS document. The labels on the EADI that indicate HDG VOR ALT simply display AP mode. Other displays indicate DH and altitude, CDI and GS as appropriate and obviously attitude and FD info. No distance.

 

On the EHSI, distance displays at the upper left with either VLOC (DME) or GPS depending on what's selected no matter how Nav radios are tuned.

 

Not trying to be obnoxious here, but I don't see what you're referring to, or any issue with the information which should be displayed.

 

Fair enough. For me it is. Vivre la difference

 

Indeed.

 

Scott

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Scott, I've been an Avionics Tech for 23 years now. Trust me, it's supposed to be there. And, I've seen it on the Carenado King Air when I've been flying. So has a friend. It is supposed to be there. 'nuff said.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Wow! I've logged just over 40 hours in the C90B and only experienced avionics issues twice with the C90, both times on startup, Cycling the master avionics switch then is no problem. I have a host of other third party aircraft and seem to have higher overall quality and less issues with the Carenado models.

 

So what do you fly?

 

OK, one last comment, then I've said all I will on this topic. I noted your post here ffpilot, but on the C90 forum you wrote:

 

Every time I put the plane into cruise flight, and bring back the power a bit, my annunciator panel lights and other warning lights all switch on, my EFIS switch off, and I have to turn that back on and reset the annunciator panel, BUT my engines and general flight components all work!

 

EVERY TIME? This is exactly the same issue as we are discussing here and you say it almost never happens to you. Doesn't sound like it's all that isolated a problem for everyone but me after all.

 

Done -_-

[tttocs 301]

Scott, I've been an Avionics Tech for 23 years now. Trust me, it's supposed to be there.

 

As for a real world gauge, which you must be referencing, I have no idea as Carenado doesn't specify exactly what they're modeling here, something which I'd guess is intentional. If you could show me how to display this information, I'd appreciate it and then I'll try to duplicate your issue and report it as a bug, but Carenado's documentation of what they've implemented suggests this can't be done and my fiddling agrees. And what is implemented works as it should on my system.

 

Every time I put the plane into cruise flight, and bring back the power a bit, my annunciator panel lights and other warning lights all switch on, my EFIS switch off, and I have to turn that back on and reset the annunciator panel, BUT my engines and general flight components all work!

 

Err... The line you attribute to fppilot came from someone else. fppilot was kind enough to respond to it and to help find a cause and solution, but it wasn't a problem he was having.

 

Scott

[fppilot 4,350]

fppilot, on 20 July 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Wow! I've logged just over 40 hours in the C90B and only experienced avionics issues twice with the C90, both times on startup, Cycling the master avionics switch then is no problem. I have a host of other third party aircraft and seem to have higher overall quality and less issues with the Carenado models.

 

So what do you fly?

 

OK, one last comment, then I've said all I will on this topic. I noted your post here ffpilot, but on the C90 forum you wrote:

 

Quote

Every time I put the plane into cruise flight, and bring back the power a bit, my annunciator panel lights and other warning lights all switch on, my EFIS switch off, and I have to turn that back on and reset the annunciator panel, BUT my engines and general flight components all work!

 

EVERY TIME? This is exactly the same issue as we are discussing here and you say it almost never happens to you. Doesn't sound like it's all that isolated a problem for everyone but me after all.

 

 

Humm. That second one labeled "Quote" does not ring a bell for me. Are you sure its my comment? If so please point me to it and I will review and apologize.