:-lol

.....True.....so true. But unfortunately this rule does not apply to Peter Tishma. And you only have to do a small search of the Avsim forums to find out why....Well, that rule should apply to everyone. And as far as PT is concerned, I'll say it again . . . it is all old news, very old. Let me give you a for instance.Suppose you worked for a guy that everyone hated . . .and it reflected upon you, but you see, you needed this job to support your wife, family and such . . . and the pay wasnt' bad, and you liked your work . . .should you quit and seek other employment in another field just to satisfy the people who don't like your boss?Now, if you are an adult, who pays bills and understands the above scenario, I just wonder if you WOULD go get another job, for less pay and such, or if you would continue to work there. Something to ponder.I happen to know that whatever PT's association with Ariane is,if any, is nothing more than an investor -- I know that to be a fact, because when this came up the last time, I made a point to really do my homework. And, I'm not even sure he is still connected, however, Bobbo Hale, is a real person, or so his operators license said, with a real wife an so are the others who work for Ariane . . . I'm sorry, but I can't take it out on him, when it is nothing HE has done. And I like their products. So yes, I will spend my money and you probably won't, Lastly, we've listened to this PT the evil Satan crap for years on this forum, and I for one am tired of it, and NO, I won't go someplace else as I've been around this place since it inception and happen to like the majority of what AVSIM does for the community and flight simming. I also know that some old timers really do hate PT and others look at it as a business deal gone bad, which happens every day. I think I am knowledgable of Tom's viewpoint, and I have mine . . . and perhaps neither one is right. I do know this, there is much more than what meets the eye, and is on a 'search' on the AVSIM forums. Much more. I'm not voting PT for president, I'm just tired of individuals, (some who don't even have a clue to what and who he was), and the constant bashing everytime Ariane brings out a new product. Let the products stand or fall on their merits.It's stupid, childish and downright digusting . . .so, I'll return to what I said: If you can't say something nice, then just don't say anything . . ." and give this well worn subject a rest. And for the final time, I have NO association with PT, WorldAir, Ariane or the like other than the last time I was in the UK, I made a point, being a flight simmer who really wanted the truth, made a point to meet a few people who really DID know the score and found it to be just that, a business deal gone bad, which some people got hurt and nothing more.......it happens every darned day.....Ennron cut my retirement from 6500 a month to 1550....I didn't like it but there is NOTHING I can do about it but let the courts handle it....and they did that in the PT case.End of story,Best to all, even the nay sayersClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"[email protected]

Well thank you Clayton for that rather touching defense of P.T. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinions, and I respect your opinion.Me? I won't do any business with anything P.T. lays his hand on. That's my opinion. I'm also entitled to mine. I hope you enjoy your new Ariane 737NG. I really really do cause I know you're a good guy. You gave me lots of help with the CS727.Keep the blue side up eh?

>"A new generation has landed">>Yeah its too bad you will have to wait 4 more generations for>a computer to come out to run it decently. I fail to see how you know exactly what that aircraft takes to run with regards to system specs.YOU DO NOT. So why don't you keep your assumptions to yourself.You have no idea what sys specs. the computer had that was involved in making the video, therefore, your comment is nothing more then trolling.

Well your right Shane, we don't know, but the video certainly doesn't lend credence to the idea that the Ariane NG will perform well on slower computers.

Mr T stole from people I respect a lot, people who are fellow software developers.He never even apologised for that.He continued selling the stolen goods, misrepresenting them as he did so as something they were not, after being ordered by the courts to stop operations.He referred his customers to the original developers (whom he had stolen the goods from in the first place) for support which he knew would not be given.For example: he knowingly sold the PSS 757 as FS2002 compatible which it is not and never will be.He sold Garry Summons' London Airports sceneries as FS2002 compatible which they are not without an upgrade (which Gary makes available to his own customers, but not those of the person who stole his scenery).He's not only stealing the work of others and misrepresenting it as his own, he then goes on to sully the reputation of those others while raising their cost of operation by increasing their support overhead. And all that while violating court orders in the process.You want me to trust a person like that?

>Well your right Shane, we don't know, but the video certainly>doesn't lend credence to the idea that the Ariane NG will>perform well on slower computers.Agreed.But what is the true definition of "slower computers"?That's my point. We just don't know enough to start degrading a product that hasn't even been released yet.I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have never experienced anything with Ariane that would cause me any ill will but apparently many here have and are therefore going to automatically bash anything they do.It is pretty sad.

>I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have>never experienced anything with Ariane that would cause me any>ill will but apparently many here have and are therefore going>to automatically bash anything they do.>>It is pretty sad.>> Oh so I suppose we are all just making this stuff up Shane? I do not know about you Shame but I judge a company upon what it has done, not what it might be doing future wise. That being the case it's quite clear that what is spoken about "Araine" is perfectly just and has many reasons to back it up. We are not shooting into the wind here with personal attacks. I will once again qoute in full what AVSIM has written on this subject. If this does not give you a good reason then I am not sure what would."Avsim Investigation: Here We Go Again ... By the AVSIM Staff Bob Hale, Bob Howe, "Bobbo", Peter Tishma, Papa Tango, PT, World Air Simulations, Ariane (1), Ariane (2), Corporate Worldwide Limited, Woodlandworld and who knows how many others, all point to the same individual, Peter Tishma of American Airlines fame (or is that infamy?). After a week or so of information being passed to us from a variety of readers, we have independently confirmed that information today. Ariane is in fact run by Tishma, who has steadfastly attempted to hide behind the obscurity of pseudonyms, and after having been dealt with quite firmly by the liquidation courts of the United Kingdom, continues to ply his trade in the flight simulation community. Were this just another gentleman who had gone bankrupt and was attempting to recreate his life after failure, there would be no large or even interesting story here. Given this man, his arrogance and disdain for the very customers he has to rely upon, it is a story worth reporting. This is the same individual that attempted to take over freeware by signing a contract with American Airlines which would have, in his "interpretation"; given him the rights to all AA owned logos, including that of TWA, in respect of their use by all others, including freeware authors. He attempted to force that interpretation off on the simulation community, and did the same with Lauda, British Airways and others. Of course, what he had in all cases was strictly a commercial arrangement with these carriers, and in no shape or way were these agreements intended to throttle the freeware contributors to our hobby, as AVSIM anticipated and subsequently resolved in discussions with AA. But, that did not stop Tishma from foisting off the attempt anyway. In doing so, he was successful in having a number of sites given "cease and desist" letters for either having AA liveried files for download and being interpreted as "commercial" enterprises, or being Virtual Airlines using the American livery. Had Tishma had his way, he would have gleaned enormous commercial benefit from cornering the freeware authors into publishing "approved" works through his company at the time; Papa Tango. Would they have remained freeware? We will let you draw your own conclusion. This is the same person who has literally stolen works from a variety of authors and organizations, including Graham Waterfield and Bob Kirkland of PSS fame. There are too many others to list, but we are quite confident that some of the "old timers" in the hobby can recall more than a few. And now we have Ariane (version 2) selling a GMAX 737. Folks, this is the same Peter Tishma of AA fame. How do we know? Thanks to some intrepid readers (who shall remain nameless) and our own staff, it was all very simple and rudimentary; we called his rented office and asked if he was there. It turns out that Tishma rents an office from Regus Instant Offices, a pretty well known instant office provider in the U.K. The phone number to this particular office is easily obtained by anyone. If you go to the Ariane site, you will find a total lack of any way to get in direct contact with them except through a rather non-descript AOL email account and a fax number. The fax number? Well it just happens to be the fax number for Regus Instant Offices in Luton, the home of the infamous Peter Tishma. What follows is a gist of phone calls repeated twice by a reader, and then by an AVSIM staff member: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Good Morning Regus" "Good Morning, can I speak to Peter Tishma please" "He is not in at the moment, but can I give you his direct number" "Thanks, that would be great" "Just a moment - that would be (number provided)" "Ok, is that Peter's direct line OR Ariane

Shane, really. Do you think a VC only panel is going to appeal to people in this market? How many can run or even like to run a VC smoothly? Not many, I assure you. I do believe his reputation indicates a type of person who would just as soon let you drown in a pool if he could make a buck, but money is more important to people than integrity isn't it? People here are allowed to express their opinons about what companies they like and who they do business with and why. How does this concern you? Do you work for Tishma? Will you lose stock if they don't do well in the market?It's one thing to stick up for a company you respect, as I do for PMDG, however, they aren't out screwing the very people who make this small community better. Why would you support someone who doesn't support this small community? *That* is what's sad.

Hi EveryoneIve just watched the video.Maybe it was slow and jerky because they recorded it using that programme that can capture video whilst playing the game. That would slow it down Id guess.Personally if I was promoting my product thats the last thing I would do as most of the people here have already commmented about how slow and jerky it is and even when I was watching it this put me off abit.I just wish developers wouldn't all keep going for the same Aircraft. Would have been great if it was a 777 or a 757/767 product instead. Thats just my thoughts though.. Too many products of the same out there.PMDG has the head start and going by that video even though Ariane has some nice features the pilot isnt really going to be operating the air stairs for example and it looks way too jerky.So I am sure people will get the Ariane NG product but for me I think the PMDG wins it. Will be interesting to see reviews though.Craig

>Hi Everyone>>>>I just wish developers wouldn't all keep going for the same>Aircraft. Would have been great if it was a 777 or a 757/767>product instead. >>Thats just my thoughts though.. Too many products of the same>out there.>>Craig>Here Here :-beerchug I wish someone would make an MD-11 payware! I wouldn't want it from Ariane, lol, but come on! We need something new already. The 727, 737, 747 bit is gettin' old.

777 777 777 777!!! :)

One very good reason to stick with the same aircraft type for several iterations is that you have invested heavily in acquiring the knowledge needed to create that first version (I hope, some manufacturers seem less thorough in their research than others) and that creating more versions can help recover that cost (or give higher profit margins because of the lower R&D expense).Code reuse can also factor heavily.If I have a 737-400 GMax model that was designed well and modular I can probably use quite a few of the parts from it for a -800 with only slight modifications.That too lowers production cost.

people, your so what boring.instead of being flying, you are complaining about the old fashioned PT story. i am not endorsed with any company out there. One thing i can say. I bought the airane aircrafts, i own them and they are still higher frames on my machine than the PMDG which i own too. apart from that, you complain always about ariane. Why you don't complain about the fu**ing Aviosgraf A340 product, which after all still cannot be flown. And the SSW A310 how many month have you been waiting and the is still no decent way to fly. What about the PSS A330/340. Bringing up a panel, not even close to a real A330/340 pit selling it "All NEW"Stolen, you say "PT has stolen ..." can you prove that. Blaming someone for being a theft, could have legal actions against you. At least for my countries law perspectif.And M$, they never copied something from someone else. Haha. don't make me laugh. M$ is only marketing. Everyone is ###### from M$, they have the largest sale of Beta software to users than you can ever imagine. Because M$ is selling only BETA. Afterwards they will always relase a second edition, once they decide that users have given them enough input to apply fixes. why you don't complain about that?You pay every two years for ne new OS, and afterwards M$ will spend 2 years in fixing the bugs, before you again pay for a new release.SPAM, from Ariane. Never. If i get a mail every 6 month, then it is much. I have stopped counting the ones from SIMMARKET.I have seen the video. I will make myself a picture of the product, and afterwards make my judgement. And not because of some nonrepresentative marketing videos. If the product is good, i will buy it. If i am not satisfied with it, i will talk to Ariane. I am not satisfied fully with planty of other products i mentioned above. their answer is always the same "Please wait for the patch ..." @Randy J., i am happy with my PMDG 737, but with my specs i have never managed to use the virtual pit nor the cabin. That's why i never claimed PMDG that product is bad. The Ariane 737th work as published. That's all that counts.thanks.my 3 cents

My turn....Keep this thread civil. If it continues in the fashion that other threads like this tend to do, it will be locked in an instant.RgdsAidihttp://www.avsim.com/pages/0100/avsim_sig.jpg