ClayAs always, a good post with good intention.Unfortunately, however, your information is incorrect:Bobbo Hale is a made-up name to try and disguise P.T.'s identity. I know this AS A FACT as I personally know the person who made the name up for Tishma. (Unless he has changed his name by deed-poll, in which case he IS a real person...who just used to be known as Peter Tishma.)And as you well know Clay, I do know my facts!As always, kind regards.Toni.

>> And as far as PT is concerned, I'll say it again . . . it is all old news, very old..................I happen to know that whatever PT's association with Ariane is,if any, is nothing more than an investor -- I know that to be a fact, because when this came up the last time, I made a point to really do my homework. And, I'm not even sure he is still connected, however, Bobbo Hale, is a real person, or so his operators license said, with a real wife an so are the others who work for Ariane . . . I'm sorry, but I can't take it out on him, when it is nothing HE has done. And I like their products. <

First, they were using some video effects and it was meant so that the pics are changing after some time, not smooth video. And when it showed the "smooth" moving in the virtual space, ofcourse the frame wasnt maximum, but I must say that it was DAMN good if we count that vidoe recording software takes down about 10 fps minimum and probably it wasnt a best computer in the world. So I hope that it will be something good. I liked the cabin part also when they filmed cabin panel.

>>>I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have>>never experienced anything with Ariane that would cause me>any>>ill will but apparently many here have and are therefore>going>>to automatically bash anything they do.>>>>It is pretty sad.>>>>>> Oh so I suppose we are all just making this stuff up Shane?>I do not know about you Shame but I judge a company>upon what it has done, not what it might be doing>future wise. That being the case it's quite clear that what is>spoken about "Araine" is perfectly just and has many reasons>to back it up. We are not shooting into the wind here with>personal attacks. I will once again qoute in full what>AVSIM has written on this subject. If this does not>give you a good reason then I am not sure what would.>>"Avsim Investigation: Here We Go Again ... >>By the AVSIM Staff >>Bob Hale, Bob Howe, "Bobbo", Peter Tishma, Papa Tango, PT,>World Air Simulations, Ariane (1), Ariane (2), Corporate>Worldwide Limited, Woodlandworld and who knows how many>others, all point to the same individual, Peter Tishma of>American Airlines fame (or is that infamy?). After a week or>so of information being passed to us from a variety of>readers, we have independently confirmed that information>today. Ariane is in fact run by Tishma, who has steadfastly>attempted to hide behind the obscurity of pseudonyms, and>after having been dealt with quite firmly by the liquidation>courts of the United Kingdom, continues to ply his trade in>the flight simulation community. Were this just another>gentleman who had gone bankrupt and was attempting to recreate>his life after failure, there would be no large or even>interesting story here. Given this man, his arrogance and>disdain for the very customers he has to rely upon, it is a>story worth reporting. >>This is the same individual that attempted to take over>freeware by signing a contract with American Airlines which>would have, in his "interpretation"; given him the rights to>all AA owned logos, including that of TWA, in respect of their>use by all others, including freeware authors. He attempted to>force that interpretation off on the simulation community, and>did the same with Lauda, British Airways and others. Of>course, what he had in all cases was strictly a commercial>arrangement with these carriers, and in no shape or way were>these agreements intended to throttle the freeware>contributors to our hobby, as AVSIM anticipated and>subsequently resolved in discussions with AA. But, that did>not stop Tishma from foisting off the attempt anyway. In doing>so, he was successful in having a number of sites given "cease>and desist" letters for either having AA liveried files for>download and being interpreted as "commercial" enterprises, or>being Virtual Airlines using the American livery. Had Tishma>had his way, he would have gleaned enormous commercial benefit>from cornering the freeware authors into publishing "approved">works through his company at the time; Papa Tango. Would they>have remained freeware? We will let you draw your own>conclusion. >>This is the same person who has literally stolen works from a>variety of authors and organizations, including Graham>Waterfield and Bob Kirkland of PSS fame. There are too many>others to list, but we are quite confident that some of the>"old timers" in the hobby can recall more than a few. >>And now we have Ariane (version 2) selling a GMAX 737. Folks,>this is the same Peter Tishma of AA fame. How do we know?>Thanks to some intrepid readers (who shall remain nameless)>and our own staff, it was all very simple and rudimentary; we>called his rented office and asked if he was there. >>It turns out that Tishma rents an office from Regus Instant>Offices, a pretty well known instant office provider in the>U.K. The phone number to this particular office is easily>obtained by anyone. If you go to the Ariane site, you will>find a total lack of any way to get in direct contact with>them except through a rather non-descript AOL email account>and a fax number. The fax number? Well it just happens to be>the fax number for Regus Instant Offices in Luton, the home of>the infamous Peter Tishma. >>What follows is a gist of phone calls repeated twice by a>reader, and then by an AVSIM staff member: >>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>"Good Morning Regus" >>"Good Morning, can I speak to Peter Tishma please" >>"He is not in at the moment, but can I give you his direct>number" >>"Thanks, that would be great" >>"Just a moment - that would be (number provided)" >>"Ok, is that Peter's direct line OR Ariane

>Shane, really. Do you think a VC only panel is going to>appeal to people in this market? How many can run or even>like to run a VC smoothly? Not many, I assure you. I do>believe his reputation indicates a type of person who would>just as soon let you drown in a pool if he could make a buck,>but money is more important to people than integrity isn't it?> People here are allowed to express their opinons about what>companies they like and who they do business with and why. >How does this concern you? Do you work for Tishma? Will you>lose stock if they don't do well in the market?>>It's one thing to stick up for a company you respect, as I do>for PMDG, however, they aren't out screwing the very people>who make this small community better. Why would you support>someone who doesn't support this small community? *That* is>what's sad.I'm not "sticking up" for anybody. All I'm saying is that I, personally, have never had an issue with them. In addition, commenting on the performance of a product before it is even released makes absolutely no sense.I never shot down anybody's opinion except for that one guy and in fact, he didn't post an opinion, he made a remark based on nothing. Big difference.I understand the issues people have had with Ariane in the past and I am aware of how they seem to do things on their site (their remarks on their site aimed directly at PMDG for instance) and I find it deplorable, BUT, when I buy an aircraft from them all I expect is a working aircraft and I have received what I have payed for thus far. Nothing more, nothing less.If others choose not to buy their products fine by me, it isn't my company and their lack of sales does not effect my bottom line in any way, shape, or form. What is sad is that this thread started out as somebody asking for help with the video and once again we all have trashed it by discussing Ariane's past. I'd be fine with forgetting about all of it but it seems like every once and a while we all have to go back and rehash the same old garbage. It gets boring and these forums are supposed to be fun. As I stated above, I have no interest in Ariane as a company AS LONG AS they deliver what they sell, and in MY case, they have done just that. For those that have had different experiences with them then I agree with you, I wouldn't buy a d*** thing from them either if I had gone through what some of you have. In fact, I never said I was even buying this product from them, that's what I bought the PMDG for, and from what I have seen thus far Ariane they doesn't even come close to PMDG (in ANY area!). I just fail to see the point of commenting on a product that has yet to be released, that's all.Orlaam, if you had looked at my signature then you would have seen exactly where my loyalties lie with regards to 737 developnment. Hope this clarifies my position here and my apologies if I offended anyone in the process...it was not my intention.:)

have you seen the video now. if not, do you have a firewall online or an antivirus. I had to turn off my firewall before download.cheers

Hello All,My point was that this was old news, brought up every time that Ariane brings out or announces a new product. It is rehashed by the same group, over, and over, and over. It's just, very, very, old.As for the AVSIM search, I don't need to do it, I've read it, I've also read the UK documents on the leagal proceedings, and the article by AVSIM was 'Yellow Journalism' then, and remains that, today. Sorry, but that is my opinion and I stand by it. And, that article was Timely brought out when Ariane was introducing a new product.Tisk, tisk, the Agenda is showing again. Now, the individual who wrote that can think anything he so please's, but you know, there are others in this hobby who have also done bad things and we hardly even, ever hear a whisper about them . . .get the point?Fact is, many of us earlier in life have done things that we are not proud of, (excuse me if you are perfect and without sin), and people do change occasionally. Also, there are those in this hobby, who frequent this forum who love to see thier name in print, bashing any subject they THINK, they are an expet in. As I said, if you don't like their products, then don't buy them. If you do, then, by all means, buy them. But this constant rehashing of the PT crap does no one, or this hobby, any good.Let the products stand or fall on their merits . . . and let it go, people. Give it a break, there are many more items to talk about in life besides something which is years old, often misquoted and not even on the menu today. From what I understand, PT lost most of what he had, a business, lots of money and his reputation . . . you think maybe we should draw and quarter him? Why not run his family out of the country . . . and by all means, let's put his head on a pike for all to see? Some times it's very difficult to see the 'human' in humanity.Best to allClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

Can we PLEASE drop the Tishma issue ? I am no fan of that man nor of his company, so I don't buy his stuff. I suggest the same for anyone who shares my opinion.There's more talk about Peter Tishma than about going to war or "winning" elections in Florida...

Clayton I couldn't agree more. I have waited to post until later on because I wanted to see actually HOW MANY people are talking about PT. I don't really know what went on - I just know it wasn't the best thing in the world. Does it really matter though? It was 5 years ago, give the man a break, we all deserve a second chance. Remember this topic was started talking about how good the product looked from the video - So that's what i'll continue with!Yes, from the video performance looks poor - But - Running FS in that environment on my fairly high spec computer gives fs about 15FPS average, so getting on the side of jerky. Now add a video capture utility, I've tried it before on my computer. My frames dropped by 10-20FPS. So, I understand the jerking is probably how the video was made. Next - there is a shot of the outside of the aircraft on takeoff with little frames. All the ariane products I've heard of have been very good on performance - Infact fantastic. From a modellers point of view they are very efficient. They have little texture files, and a reasonably low polys count - infact lower than a lot of freeware aircraft. They run very well, so how would that make performance suffer so much? Because of the video capturing. Sorry If I have repeated a point but I want to get my point accross.Secondly - I believe his External models are second to none. They are the best looking 737's around IMO. People may disagree, but I believe that. The modeller has some serious talent. Now, from the screen shots and the video I also think the VC is edging on the best 737 VC out there, it is very accurate in porportions, and It just seems to be there - and If it was modelled by the same person its probably very efficiently modelled too. The guages look reasonably good, although I believe pmDG may have this on looks - But we really need to try the product out in full screen because the video is too small to examin them. They do look very good though, and also the 3d clickable overhead looks awesome, much better than just a big clickable guage IMO.Flight dynamics can not tell at all because we have to actually try it out, but if it flys to the numbers hopefully it will be very good. I have been told the old ones were not too accurate, but they were reasonalbly good. Since I own the pmDG 737 there is always a lot of possibilities for me to use their FDE etc as I perfer this model from looks.The final thing i will say is I probably will buy this aircraft, I am beginning to love the 737 series now, and I am interested in any aircraft with a decent panel. I guess we have to wait until we can try it out before its possible to find out if it stands up to the previews which are very impressive. I probably WILL by this products - I don't care what has happened in the past, I wasn't a big flight simmer at the time, and I try not to hold a grudge on anything. Just my faughts - Sorry if they no longer fit into the supposed topic here...

FWIW, I'm simply not interested in YET ANOTHER 737. Arianes product may vacuum fluids, or it may not, but the timing is universally lousy. Too little, too late. Yawn, bored with 737's.Video is rubbish too. All potatoes, no meat.I happen to think all jet airliners have been done to death in FS and I hate Ariane for inflicting yet another variant on the same tedious theme. Why not do something original?Does that make me a bad person?:)Allcott

Alcott,NOPE, it doesn't make you a bad person . . . and I too think by all companies, we have been 737'd to death. It's time for something new, however, new is difficult to find. I would imagine that the new 7E7 will be the next victim on that long list. Already people are making models of aircraft they yet are to see in the flesh.But, that is the price of today's society, and our, 'I want it now' thinking. All in all, I'm not sure how many new aircraft out there can be done, but I am sure someone will do it, and in a excellent way.Best to all, and let's all try to smile.Clayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"[email protected]

Fair comment Allcott, but the 737 does seem to be 'flavour of the month' and in any event, it's the one and only thing Ariane's ever modelled.That said, as it was Ariane who 'threw down the gauntlet' in the infomercials, comparisons with the PMDG 737 are probably inevitable.For what it's worth, I agree that the Ariane plane and VC do look quite impressive but in my opinion guages, however well they 'work', are useless if they cannot be seen properly and I have yet to see a VC where instruments can be properly scanned and flown with. And if you're going to market a product on mainly the cockpit, it's (A)- got to work accurately and correctly and (B)be readable. On the strength of the video, Ariane's may be in difficulty. That's why PMDG gives a 'zoom' option on views and the basic instruments. Remember, there's no 2D panel with the Ariane plane.Watching the stairs retract from within the plane, or pressing a button to get the loo to flush (or whatever) just doesn't sell it to me.And we still have no idea of cost, both in terms of framerate or money!Can't wait for the 'critique' after all the hype....Toni.

Well this thread has turned into an interesting discussion.Bottom line: Avsim, and many individuals in this community whom I respect have proven to me that PT, Ariane, and all of his incarnations are people I don't want to do business with. For goodness sakes he has went to court in London (!) over this nonsense and was convicted. Tell me he's innocent?I don't know about you, but Pt's well documented business practice's are simply not for me. I don't give a flying 'care' if Ariane is a good company now. PT's (past?) business practices simply are not condusive to my morals and standards. People have said 'well that was in the past, lets forgive him,' quite frankly I don't agree with that. To take the metaphor to the extreme, thats like saying 'yea this guy commited countless counts of grand theft, but because that was in the past let him go, he won't do it again.'If you wish to spend your money with PT, thats fine; I just don't understand it.

I've always been puzzled as to why Ariane doesn't have a forum. Given the past practices associated with this company, if by some chance lessons have been learned and practices amended, then I would have thought that a forum, where potential clients could directly interact with the Ariane team, would have served their interests immensely.As such, being continually held at arms length from the developer doesn't help renew confidence, should some be open to that. Until such a time as we hear directly from those at Ariane, I will be keeping my distance in a 'buyer beware' mode.Mike F.

Folks,I think the all that needs to be said on the subject has been. To that end I am going to lock the thread.RgdsAidihttp://www.avsim.com/pages/0100/avsim_sig.jpg