>Jon no one said Mike Stone's Gulfstream was bad... :-hmmm >>There's nothing out here in the FS2k4 arena to go with it>(panel, sounds, etc.). That's really the root of this whole>issue. >well Dillon,then get to work,and produce one.then you too can take the whining and bashing everybody so graciously supplies to freeware authors these days.and,as i hardly witness you writing anything positive about whatever package it is you are writing about,it seems you just might need that.cheersTom.

"I'm an amateur 3d modeller and artist, usually toying around with household stuff as far as models go. I gave serious consideration to modelling a plane... Not now. Hell no. No possible way I'm going to toil over something only to have it trashed because it's not "perfect". This community has become spoiled rotten." :-lol That is too funny. I have just done the same thing. Up until now, my contributions have been limited to repaints, and some very minor scenery fixes. Just 4 days ago, I downloaded GMAX version 1.2 from the discreet site, and started doing the tutorials with the foolish notion of making an aircraft. I had weighed the fact that it would never meet the Posky/IFDG/Lyons standard, but that it would still be a model that would be accepted by the community. Well, this thread, and these attitudes pretty much squashed that idea. It's on to plan "B", which is scenery design. I have long wanted to upgrade the local airport that I fly out of because it is a very urban airport, and would look good if it were modelled correctly. Who knows, the critics of this hobby just may get the chance to sling their arrows directly at me after all. :-lol Tim13

Well Tom,If you help with the background and side views, I'll see what I can do about the gauges... :-smooch

>Would you "settle" for a GIV, Ron? ;-)>>I'm sure a GIV would be just as popular.>>Give me a call, as I don't use ";-)" for nothing!>>Regards,>http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...RUM_LOUF_A2.jpg>Ha Ha, will do Lou:-) Thank you sir!

So this thread has some value, let's make these assumptions--~All parties feel the challenge isn't with Mike Stone's work...~All parties would like to see a great G-IV/V with all the bells and whistlesWhat many likely don't know is that Rick S. made the source for his excellent G-IV project available at freeflightdesignhttp://www.freeflightdesign.com/business/G...rce%20Files.zipI challenge anyone concerned with getting a state of the art freeware G-IV/V project off the ground to organize a team and take Rick's source and run with it.Good luck, and I hope you GMAX designers don't all collide at the URL :)-John

Hi All,Mike Stone makes some fine aircraft that I have thorooughly enjoyed. I think he is a very generous man for making them freely available to all Flight Simulator enthusiasts! I hope we haven't lost sight of that here in this thread. I just e-mailed him a while ago asking if I could use his FDE from his Gulf V as the basis to update the FDE of another aircraft, namely the FS2k2 Gulf IV that John Ci mentions above. He replied..."Cetainly, no problem at all."I took a look at Rick Sasala's Gulf IV last night. It seems to be fine in FS2004 except for one thing, the FDE. When I flew it by hand the nose wants to undulate up and down when above 360 KIAS. I set the autopilot for 22,500 feet and 482 KIAS. The autopilot couldn't handle it either. The same thing happens, the nose swings up and down. Also, the elevators flap up and down rapidly. It is very nice though. Has a VC and VCCAB. Most everything is clickable in the VC, everything on the panel and the light switches on the overhead.I will be taking a shot at updating the the FDE of this fine plane using the .air file from Mike Stone's Gulf V and the aircraft.cfg file as the basis for updating the Gulf IV's aircraft.cfg file. Who knows, in the end I might find that I need to adjust the .air file too. Although I know my way around an aircraft.cfg file somewhat, this will kind of be a new experience for me. So it will take me some time and I am not certain I will come up with something I feel is worthy of posting, but I going to give a go at it!Here are some screenshots of the plane available as...Filename: gulfstream_pfp.zipAuthor: Miguel Arteaga Rodriguez APM PaintMexEDIT: I just thought I should note that this is yet another aircraft that Mark Beaumont had a hand in, as Rick Salasa says in one of the Readme's... "Thanks:Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont...for all of his help PERIOD!Max Jaques for pointing out some obvious flaws on the Original Cargo version and providing the real world Checklist.And all the others in the original Readme File...."Cheers,Jim

Wow a beautiful airplane and a beautiful VC! Yes Mike makes wonderful airplanes, but for those of us who fly in VC only, we just don't fly them! Not a knock against Mike, as I don't expect freeware to have VCs, thats why I've purchased quite a few payware airplanes.I'm looking forward to the updated FDE and to be able to fly her soon! Thanks again

"I took a look at Rick Sasala's Gulf IV last night. It seems to be fine in FS2004 except for one thing, the FDE. When I flew it by hand the nose wants to undulate up and down when above 360 KIAS. I set the autopilot for 22,500 feet and 482 KIAS."Do you mean KTAS? Those speed are way too fast for indicated in the flight levels for the G-IV--and most pax jets. -John

Hey Jim since I've been the main advocate of the Gulfstream for FS2k4 (especially on this thread), I'm offering my services to get this plane updated to FS2k4 standards... You say the word I'm here... :-) HEY Tom van der Elst, maybe you can help us out too... :-smooch

:-)

>At this point, there's nothing to be said. The provberbial>toothpaste is out of the tube. What those of us with opposing>viewpoints are trying to get across is simply if you can't>think of something good to say about freeware, don't say>anything at all. I believe I said exactly the same thing several posts back. I only entered into this conversation becuase the subject had already been breached and I wanted to respond to a few specific points that had been made. >Ever see a crappy freeware review by Avsim? No. Notice how>they removed the star rating system for freeware? They get it.I completely agree with the idea of not giving ratings to freeware. However, I can't really remember the last time Avsim reviewed any freeware plane that wasn't already recognised as a "triple-A" piece of work if you will so the fact that I haven't seen a "crappy freeware review" isn't that surprising. I mean if the only reviews are of Milton Shupe-quality releases, you're not likely to hear alot of negative comment. I'd be surprised if Avsim did review a plane (freeware or not) and didn't make mention of the fact that it didn't include a VC or panel though. Saying so isn't necessarily taking a cheap shot at the developer is it?>Applaud the great work that has been done. But if you find>something that's not to your liking, quietly delete it and>don't worry about it any more. No one is born Milton Shupe or>Richard Probst (all due respect to them and their peers.) If>someone puts out their modest attempt and they see that it's>not downloaded often according to the stats, perhaps it'll>cause them to re-evaluate and try to improve on a version 2. totally agree...>OTOH, if they see that someone is going out of their way to>point out the flaws by spending the time and energy to create>a forum post about it, then it's a little more personal.I don't think I've done this at all. Is making note of the fact that I prefer planes that include VCs "going out of my way to point out flaws?" I wouldn't even say not including a VC is a flaw. Its a design decision. I mean what if I said I don't really ever download Helicopters becuase I don't particularly enjoy flying them in the sim? Would that been seen as taking a stab at freeware chopper designers?>Don't like it? Leave it alone. I believe that's all we're>saying.>>And I believe I've basically said the same thing several times myself...

>Hey Jim since I've been the main advocate of the Gulfstream>for FS2k4 (especially on this thread), I'm offering my>services to get this plane updated to FS2k4 standards... You>say the word I'm here... :-) >>HEY Tom van der Elst, maybe you can help us out too...>:-smooch sure mate,i'll see if i can get a hold of someone owning a V.might take a while though,as Ron says,it takes time.tvan_der_elst at ilse.nl for further discussions and brainstorming ;-)cheersedit:if wanted,i could also repaint some.

>"I took a look at Rick Sasala's Gulf IV last night. It seems>to be fine in FS2004 except for one thing, the FDE. When I>flew it by hand the nose wants to undulate up and down when>above 360 KIAS. I set the autopilot for 22,500 feet and 482>KIAS.">>Do you mean KTAS? Those speed are way too fast for indicated>in the flight levels for the G-IV--and most pax jets. >>-JohnHi John,No, I meant Knots Indicated Air Speed. Perhaps you're not familiar with the Gulf IV. Neither am I! But after downloading the aircraft from the library here is what is contained in the Gulf_IV_ref.txt file...-----------------------------------------Gulfstream IV-SP REFERENCE INFORMATIONTotal Flight Simulator aircraft weight with full fuel 74,500 lbs (Max Ramp) 74,500 ibs (Max Takeoff) 66,000 ibs (Max Landing)NOTE: To adjust fuel load, on the Aircraft menu, click Fuel.VMO - Maximum Operating Speed (airspeed) 564 KIAS (primary display) 559 KIAS (standby airspeed indicator)MMO - Maximum Operating Speed (Mach) .86 Mach (autopilot disengaged) .88 Mach (autopilot engaged)VA - Maneuvering Speed 75,000 lbs. 170 KIAS (sea level) 206 KIAS (20,000') VLO - Maximum Gear Operating Speed 225 KIASVLE - Maximum Landing Gear Extension Speed 250 KIASVFE - Maximum Flaps Extended Speed 250 KIAS (flaps 10 degrees) 220 KIAS (flaps 20 degrees) 180 KIAS (flaps 40 degrees)V1 - Takeoff Decision Speed (dry runway; standard temperature) 104 KIAS (for all conditions, with anti-skid off)VR - Rotation Speed (dry runway; standard temperature) Sea Level 125 KIAS (74,600 lbs) V2 - Takeoff Safety Speed (dry runway, standard temperature) Sea Level 150 KIAS (74,600 lbs)-----------------------------------------I also watched the Mach Speed on the PFD. At no time was I exceeding Mach .80Alex,Glad you liked the screenshots. :)For everyone awaiting me to update the FDE for this aircraft, please be patient. Unfortunately I have lot of things to take care of the remainder of this week. We had a tenant up and disappear from a rental property and they trashed the place. I have to mow the lawn here. We have relatives in town, ect. I might not be able to devote much time at all to this until the begininng of next week. Once I get started it will probably only take me a few days since I have Mike Stone's FDE to base the work off of(he will receive the real credit for this). Remember, this will pretty much be a new experience for me. I look forward to doing it and learning in the process, but it would probably turn out better if it were done by an FDE guru. Nevertheless I certainly wouldn't mind doing it and therefor become a little familiar with FDE development. I know there's a website or two giving insight on making an FDE and the ins and outs of the .air and aircraft.cfg files. If anyone has some links for these please pass them on! If not no worries, I'll be able to find them.Regards,Jim

VMO - Maximum Operating Speed (airspeed)564 KIAS (primary display)559 KIAS (standby airspeed indicator)I suspect these values are wrong.... Even at mach .86-88, you're only doing about 520-540 kts true airspeed--and I believe about 320 kts indicated at FL350. My numbers are rough ones, but 320kts indicated seems more appropriate and I can't imagine the aircraft exceeding that in cruise climb or level flight.I may be wrong however, but I imagine 560 indicated would tear the wings off of anything other than a fighter. Somewhere there must be a spec posted for the G-IV which gives the VMO numbers...-John

Hi John,Well, when I first looked at those numbers I thought holy cow! :-eek So I think you are right. I just made sure I kept it at Mach .80 or under. I should see if I can get the correct numbers and release an updated 'Gulf_IV_ref.txt' file with the FDE.Fortunately I didn't have to go work at one of our rental properties this evening so I am beginning to work by learning about FDE's right now. Found a website I was looking for too... http://perso.wanadoo.fr/hsors/FS_Soft/I have a question for anyone who thinks they might know the answer. It is my understanding that there was a problem if you used the FSEdit (SDK) that was released for FS2002. Does anyone know for certain if the problem was fixed for the FSEdit that's been released for FS2004? I do have the latest version of AirEd too and as far as I know it works fine for FS2004 .air files.Cheerio,Jim