http://www.moonlightgames.comis currently working on a G5

I agree.>I can't touch it if there's no VC and no realistic panel with>side views, the Gulfstream is too beautiful of a bird to>accept that these days. I liked the FS2k2 version that was>done a year ago. It contained a nice panel, VC, and cabin. To>bad the author didn't update the FDE to FS2k4 standards...>>Thanks for the effort Mike Stone... I've just been a little>spoiled with all these great FS2k4 models (freeware and>payware). >>I'm looking forward to Eaglesoft taking a stab at the>Gulfstream... Can you just imagine how awesome that would>be... :-eek :-jumpy See you in the fence...CYYZ

"See you in the fence..."I'm not getting what your trying to say here... :-hmmm

John, this is a forum isn't it to discuss ideas, opinions, etc.???I made double sure I wasn't disrespectful to anyone and if I feel a certain way about a product (freeware or payware) I'll say so if the topic arises (good or bad). The point here is no one said anything was wrong with his work, I for one like more in a package. That's why I have mostly payware products. Everyone should be free to comment on something as long as they are not disrespecting the person in question. Work is work and Mike Stone knows there are some that like his work and some that don't. That's why he retired from the designing game and then returned. I never said his work was bad and none of us are 'dissin' him. Since when is using an aircraft as AI looked down upon??? :-hmmm That's the most ridicules thing I've ever heard...John people have likes and dislikes for various reasons, that's life. People are going to talk as well and although I understand your point, I don't think we'll ever see the day when every comment that comes out of someone

Or, perhaps to summarize, "Honest men disagree."

Let's not forget that Mike stopped posting his files on Avsim for precisely this reason. I fighure if you want what's offered, great, if you don't just leave it. Why comment? Mike makes planes, usually with simple panels, but planes are his thing. Others make panels and not planes. The key is to find a great combination. A great example of Mike's work being coupled with the work of a great panel designer is the L1011 just released by OM Wings. Between the two, Mike and OM Wings, the L1011 is a truely great package.

Hi,Just want to voice my opinion here. I read the posts. I don't think Dillon nor Eric Joiner bashed or disrespected Mike Stone's work. They said it wasn't up to their 'expectations' as a flyable in FS2004 but felt it might be fine for use as an AI, in their opinion. I think people should be allowed to voice their opinion, as long as they aren't bashing. Now, if 90% of the posts I saw from somebody were negative in nature, I might be speaking a little differently. But I have to agree, not every single post someone makes should be required to make you everyone feel all warm and fuzzy all over.Perhaps, if there were very few freeware works being offered then maybe the aircraft would have been seen as a godsend. But we have it pretty good nowadays, maybe to the point where some things are (almost?) taken for granted. Personally, I don't expect anything for free. And I don't see these guys as saying they 'expected' some incredible Gulfstream and didn't get it.I mostly want to say that I think Dillon's last post here was pretty articulate and well put. Furthermore, although there are great freeware offerings, payware is usually of higher quality and has more features, like it or not. Of course this is not always the case! Hence the word 'usually'. With that said, you want payware quality, you pay for it. And as Dillon said, he flys mostly payware aircraft. Of course that would not be any excuse to bash someone's freeware offering, but as I said, I don't see any bashing going on here.'Nuff said.Jim

"So when you get someone that opens up this can of worms with a release that doesn't cover the basics of FS2k4, your going to get this kind of response."This statement just about sums up the things that are wrong with this thread. I can't believe that Mike Stone had the audacity to open up this "can of worms" by offering a freeware aircraft to the community. The nerve of some freeware authors. :-lol Tim13

It's the typical "gimme, gimme, gimme, I want it all, and for free, or else I will publically complain about it" attitude. When I download a plane, and don't like it for whatever reason, I delete it. End of story. Criticizing it publically ain't gonna change a thing except to make those that do look like whiners.

Fair comment or not, the problem is that negative comments (even if they are only vaguely negative) only serve to discourage freeware developers. That does real harm to the hobby. Such comments are most often made by people who have contributed little or nothing themselves. Freeware is a gift of someone's real efforts, accept it gracefully or say nothing. That's my opinion.

Tim, your taking that comment out of context... Why don't you read the whole paraghaph (understand it) and then get back to me...

"Since when is using an aircraft as AI looked down upon??? :-hmmm That's the most ridicules thing I've ever heard..."Whoa there Dillon! I did not comment on use of Mike's work as AI. My comment is based on the public statement you made about his work not having a V/C, and that being your motivation for not downloading it. If you don't think that's bashing, then I don't know what is. That is dissin' someone's work in MY opinion. Even if Mike doesn't care, designers have feelings. You are prominent in these forums, more often than not with well thought out opinions and views of the state of our hobby. When your views apply to payware, I listen--and hope payware designers listen too. As for freeware, Mike isn't the only designer here who releases work without V/C's. Come to think of it, my one and only release didn't either. I haven't seen one in Erick Cantu's 737 NG. Nor IFDG's A32x series. What I do see are worthy aircraft for anyone to enjoy if they get their head out of the sand...I mean cockpit....long enough to realize many enjoy this sim just for entertainment's sake. Don't be frustrated because no Gulfstream meeting your expectations has come down the pike. Learn 3-d design. Learn panel and gauge design. Learn FDE design. And toil for hours and hours and release your work, unpaid. If you feel that's a cop-out response, no it isn't--not when it comes down on expecations for freeware projects.I've been on this planet a long time, and I don't need to be told that everything isn't always rosy and peachy... But for the millionth time, enough with "right to opinion". No one has the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. This theater--these forums--is crowded with designers and budding designers. I cannot believe your "can of worms" comment. Curse freeware designers for leaving out a V/C and raising controversy.... Seriously, I suspect you meant to say something different or at least have it mean something different. I hope...

John I see this is going no where so I will retire from this topic. :-abduct Mike Stone I hope I didn't offend you in any way and if you are that wasn't my intention... P.S. John if my talents were in GMAX/FSDS2 design, I most certainly would do it myself. So instead of doing a half baked job only to get mad and offended when people tell me about myself, I leave it to the pros (Eaglesoft, PMDG)... I like many others just humbly ask these talented guys if they wouldn

Hi,Since I stuck my neck out and said I thought Dillon's reply was well put I thought after reading the posts that followed I should make another post of my own.Yeah, ok, when it comes to freeware it'd be best to just keep one's trap shut unless you have something good to say about it, or give contrsuctive critisism that is put very nicely. And I would say that "can of worms" comment probably was something that wasn't put too well. I am just simple guy who has only done a couple of very small efforts for the community. I sure don't want to see freeware developers demoralized in any way shape or form, because they make a lot of fantastic stuff that I have thoroughly made use of and enjoyed. I have given thanks to some of them on the forums here and sent some e-mails to do the same. But probably not enough!Concerning my ealier post, on second thought while I don't think every single post by someone has to be entirely postive, when it comes to critiquing freeware it should be done in a positive light. Most of the people that create something for free take a considerable amount of effort and time to do so, for aboslutely nothing in return. A lot of times not even for a thank you. In my mind I don't expect anything for free, and I always keep that in mind. Perhaps that doesn't mean that freeware is beyond reproach, but if it's not up to what you were hoping for you should just keep it to yourself. Unless perhaps you have suggestion you can make to make it even better, and you can put forth that suggestion very nicely and with good manners.If you have shelled out hard earned cash, which is your own time and effort, then I guess it's anything goes! :-lol To a degree of course. In other words I'm kind of half-joking there.Freeware creators and their creations are one of the strongest and largest reasons why this sim just keeps getting better and better. Therefore, they should be coddled with and treated with great respect, imho.Ok, I hope we can all just get along! ;)Take Care,Jim

No need to read it again. That sentence says it all.I too am done beating this dead horse.Cheers all.Tim13