I'd like to ask a simple question, but one that I've made complicated. When flying VFR, I know you're supposed to stay out of the clouds by a certain distance horizontally and vertically. So when I'm flying VFR in the great Legacy and I see clouds ahead at 8,000 ft., exactly what are my options? I guess I could climb immediately to be above them, or descend below them, or maybe change course and fly around them. What is realistic in this scenario? Thanks for any feedback.

Airspace permitting, in RL I do both sometimes depending on cloud type and initial guess of size. Usually the first thing I look at is the width. If it is smaller than I will usually just slip to either side and pass it. Mostly though on larger ones I go under as to not get caught above.

 

 

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It depends on what type of airspace you're in as far as spacing:

Class B: 3 miles visibility' date=' remain clear of any clouds (no minimum distance since you'll be under control in B at all times)

Class C and D: 3 miles visibility, 500 ft below, 1,000 ft above and 2,000 ft laterally

Class E (<=10,000 MSL): 3 miles visibility, 500 ft below, 1,000 ft above, 2,000 ft laterally

Class E (> 10,000 MSL): 5 miles visibility, 1,000 ft below, 1,000 ft above, 1 mile laterally[/quote']

 

How you stay within those bounds is your decision based on how safe you'd like to fly. If you can fly your way between broken clouds within those distances and like the risk, this is called "scud running." You If it's a higher ceiling of the clouds and you can stay under them at a safe altitude, this is also an option. If you like being crazy stupid and the clouds are a lower layer and clear on top you can fly above them ("VFR on Top") which is a great example of flying that is legal but stupid -- but can be fun in a sim :)

VFR on top might be poor judgement, but only if the pilot is not instrument rated... Many IFR rated pilots go VFR on top.

Indeed. My 'legal yet stupid' comment was indeed toward non-IFR rated pilots :)

Did that once as a VFR pilot. I can confirm that it is very stupid.

Thankfully I've not had to help any VFR-only pilots get through IMC... it definitely scares me...

My 'legal yet stupid' comment was indeed toward non-IFR rated pilots :)

Did that once as a VFR pilot. I can confirm that it is very stupid.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in those feelings.

It depends on what type of airspace you're in as far as spacing:

 

 

How you stay within those bounds is your decision based on how safe you'd like to fly. If you can fly your way between broken clouds within those distances and like the risk, this is called "scud running." You If it's a higher ceiling of the clouds and you can stay under them at a safe altitude, this is also an option. If you like being crazy stupid and the clouds are a lower layer and clear on top you can fly above them ("VFR on Top") which is a great example of flying that is legal but stupid -- but can be fun in a sim :)

 

Don't forget class G . ^_^ Students hate that.

 

Cloud avoidance is to be done like any other maneuver: Safely and within reason. If you can't maintain VFR at a given altitude, you shouldn't be there. If you're meandering through clouds to get somewhere, you should consider getting your instrument rating. Unless you're doing it for fun, of course.

 

Thankfully I've not had to help any VFR-only pilots get through IMC...

 

Average time before losing attitude for non-instrument rated pilots: 178 seconds... There was a FAAS program with the name "178 Seconds to Live."

Thankfully I've not had to help any VFR-only pilots get through IMC...

 

I was a relatively new pilot on a relatively long return trip. I stopped a couple of hours before I ran into the clouds to get gas and updated weather. The weather was still nice and the FSS forecast was good: weather still well south...should be good. (First lesson...aviation forecasts can stink just as bad as the Weather channel). After a couple of hours, saw a thin layer ahead and figured that I'd climb over it. As I flew east, the clouds below me (which I thought, and according to the forecast, should have just been a thin layer) were getting taller and I learned how they keep creeping higher. I finally got a PIREP from some pilots ahead and turned around. I never flew into a cloud but the thought occurred to me as I was turning around that the clouds were growing (but NOT until I turned around). Spent 2 days sitting at a beautiful airport in Latroba, PA waiting for the weather to clear and absorbing just how dumb that whole situation was. I walked through it, over and over, from the bad forecast to my decisions all along the way. An experience like that burns into your head.

 

You either learn from these experiences or you repeat them and, eventually, get into trouble. The situations sneak up on you and you don't know when they'll appear or how they'll appear. A few weeks later JFK Jr (who worked in the building across the corner from mine) died in his own flying situation. It shook me pretty bad.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I caught myself zig-zagging between clouds and thought this can't be right. I guess when flying VFR, the key is to cruise low enough below cloud level and forget about peak performance and efficiency. Safety first, in other words.

When considering going on top in unstable air, remember that cumulus clouds can easily grow at 3000 ft/min!

 

Today the ceilings in NJ were anywhere from 1000 to 2500 in the morning with "good" visibility. The forecast called for the ceilings to go higher (and they eventually did), but you could see virga all around and it wasn't showing up on the radar... Staying below these clouds wouldn't be too wise either as the temp/dewpoint spread was small at only 4 degrees and a cold front was moving into the area with strong winds along the front.

 

It was marginal, but legal for VFR by the airport. I chose to stay on the ground and wishing I were in the air instead of having it the other way around!

 

In any case, on a regular day if you run into scattered clouds here and there and are forced to adjust course, it's just as Timmer said. If they're widely scattered you can thread right around them, or consider climbing over or remaining below. Some considerations about going up or down might be how far you can glide if your engine failed, airspace clearance or favorable winds aloft.