I was flying to Ronald Reagan Washington National (KDCA) and I noticed that all the approaches are pretty "challenging" per the published approaches on the GPS?Is it true that 19 does not have a straight in because of the no fly zone around the government buildings?If so. Do you really have to come in at around 150 and then turn to 190 right at the very end of the approach?I wasn't ready for it the first time, so I had to go around, but Whoa Nelly, that's an interesting final.Also, for real world pilots out there, if you are making the VORDME 19 approach, at what point do you guys begin to turn?It looks like my approach took me right over the Watergate hotel and Georgetown, and I began my turn over The Lincoln Memorial. Is that about right?

If you could somehow show us the approach chart then we could comment.Unfortunately I don't have the chart for this airport.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

I don't have a chart, unfortunately, only what is programmed on FS9 GPS. All the 19 approaches seem similar in their approach path.

>I was flying to Ronald Reagan Washington National (KDCA) and>I noticed that all the approaches are pretty "challenging" per>the published approaches on the GPS?-Yes they are fairly challenging to do.>Is it true that 19 does not have a straight in because of the>no fly zone around the government buildings?-Yes this is true. You basiclly follow the potamac to the airport and turn at on short final to land on the runway.>If so. Do you really have to come in at around 150 and then>turn to 190 right at the very end of the approach?Yes>Also, for real world pilots out there, if you are making the>VORDME 19 approach, at what point do you guys begin to turn?-Don't know>It looks like my approach took me right over the Watergate>hotel and Georgetown, and I began my turn over The Lincoln>Memorial. Is that about right?- I don't really know if this is right or not, I usually just follow the potamac to Runway 19.For charts on DCA go to http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/index.php and type KDCA in the ICAO boxHere is the chart to the river visual: http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approa...RIVER_VIS19.PDFHope this helps :)

Hey, he asked for real ATP pilots to reply only! I don't think either of you guys are ;)Alright, just messing.

No, I am asking for all people, but especially those who have "really" flown the approach.I am not limiting it to real pilots, but if some want to answer and give the definitive, that would be great.(by the way, I found out that AI traffic doesn't follow the approach, all theirs were straight in.

>Is it true that 19 does not have a straight in because of the>no fly zone around the government buildings?Definitely. By the way, I'm not an ATP but do live in Northern Virginia and have worked at the airport on the Historic Terminal "A" reconstruction project.>If so. Do you really have to come in at around 150 and then>turn to 190 right at the very end of the approach?>>Also, for real world pilots out there, if you are making the>VORDME 19 approach, at what point do you guys begin to turn?>>It looks like my approach took me right over the Watergate>hotel and Georgetown, and I began my turn over The Lincoln>Memorial. Is that about right?That's close to right. However, your approach was vveerryy close to or even inside P-56 (the prohibited area 1.5 NM north of DCA to 18,000 MSL). IFR, baby - I Follow that River.If you follow the LDA/DME RWY 19, you'll fly heading 145 towards I-VWH on 108.5 with the Watergate pretty much underneath you but a little off to the left (very close to P-56). However, the Lincoln Memorial is actually inside P-56 and perhaps a smidge too early to begin your turn (depending on your aircraft and wind conditions). The VOR/DME RWY 19 has you coming into the VOR on heading 155, but that more southerly heading is allowable in that the VOR is positioned further south on the field than is the LDA station. In that it's a VOR approach, the 155 heading is necessary to stay within the required 30 degree offset from the runway heading 185, and there is understandable variance in the ways pilots approach with different planes in different conditions. Most times they'll be on the centerline of the river past P-56 at the Arlington Memorial Bridge and then fade left to make their hard bank all at once just before the George Mason Memorial Bridge about even with the Navy-Merchant Marine Memorial. Sometimes it appears they even find it necessary to shoot off to the left after passing P-56 and hug the river bank when the wind is strong from the southwest so they can establish a better slip and alignment on that 6,869' runway, but then not every pilot does so under the same conditions. It's down to personal preference and experience if not company procedure, I'd imagine.Many times pilots follow the River Visual RWY 19 as evidenced by their snaking approach and hard banks over the Key Bridge and George Mason Bridge (see the plate). That narrow little strip of airspace between P-56 and the high-rise office buildings of Rosslyn (D.C. just doesn't have what could be considered skyscrapers) presents quite a challenge when flying the River Visual in gusty winds.I've sat many times at Gravelly Point (a spot on a little promontory just 1,500 feet to the north of the Rwy 19 threshold) as the 737's, 757's, and MD-8x-9x's roll in over the Potomac River right overhead. If you'd like to keep things real, take note:1) Rwy 33 is closed to takeoffs indefinitely.2) Left hand turnoffs from Rwy 33 to Twy K are prohibited.3) Rwy 15 is available for all jet takeoffs, but no run-ups in position. Rolling takeoffs only.4) Between 2200 and 0700 local time, operations of aircraft type and model that exceed these noise levels are prohibited: Departures - 72 dBA as generated on takeoff, Arrivals - 85 dBA as generated on approach (with the exception that aircraft scheduled to arrive before 2200 are allowed to land if they've received an approach clearance before 2230). NO NOISE AT NIGHT - Congress saw to it. ;-)5) Air carrier aircraft may not operate between KDCA and any other airport that is more than 1,250 statute miles away.There are noise abatement restrictions in the form of Power Management Procedures, Special Departure Procedures, and Special Arrival Procedures, but you'll have to get the Airport Facility Directory for those. Turns out my fingers have to be busy doing other things today.I highly recommend downloading all the appropriate plates and charts for this rather interesting airport from your favorite source. They spell things out quite nicely.:-)Hope this helps,Kevin

Kevin,Great post - informative - good reading !Curious about restriction #5 above..... reasoning ?Thanks, RonKORL

Thanks. I just really have a soft spot for that airport if you can't tell. The history of the airport is really interesting, IMO.http://www.mwaa.com/national/history.htmSome of the best snippets:"The bulk of the proposed airfield site was under water. Between November 1938 and December 1939, almost 20 million cubic yards of sand and gravel were moved onto the site."Speaking of Washington-Hoover airport (KDCA's predecessor) located on the present site of the Pentagon, "Incredibly, the airport's one runway was intersected by a busy vehicular street, Military Road, which had guards posted to flag down traffic during takeoffs and landings."From its opening in the early 1940's, "At this time, National Airport was considered the

I believe #5 was an attempt to force long haul aircraft to Dulles.I remember driving from Southern Maryland to KDCA and KIAD in the late 1960's. Leaving the then four-laned beltway, you entered rural Northern Virginia.Last time I visited that area in 2002, it wasn't very rural anymore! Dulles has long haul and short haul.W. Sieffert

Hi Kevin,To add to the restrictions at KDCA:Traffic into this airport is limited to (as I understand it) airline (part 121 only??) traffic (may be part 135 as well?). Aircraft get a codeword (which changes daily) in their clearances to use when checking in with Approach? and in some cases when the crew forget it, they get re-routed to Dulles, BWI or whatever. Certainly no VFR traffic.Bruce.

>Traffic into this airport is limited to (as I understand it)>airline (part 121 only??) traffic (may be part 135 as well?). >Aircraft get a codeword (which changes daily) in their>clearances to use when checking in with Approach? and in some>cases when the crew forget it, they get re-routed to Dulles,>BWI or whatever. Certainly no VFR traffic.Certainly. No blithely wandering into that field. IFR aircraft may be given clearance for visual approach, but they're still IFR for sure. The folks at Signature Flight Support at KDCA confirmed that GA flights are not allowed inbound or outbound. While they admitted that there are rumors for reopening GA traffic, they unreservedly stated that those are just rumors.Codeword for clearance? Hadn't heard of that one, but you've gotten me curious now. }( Yet another reason to chat up some of my RW pilot guys. Poor them. :-)Kevin

When the weather is good we fly what is called the "River Visual" to 19. It basically flies down the river until very short final with a hard right turn to land at about 500 feet. It is rather sporting, especially with gusty winds. When the weather is bad and you have to land south due to winds, there is a non precision approach with an LDA (limited localizer) with slightly higher minumums than usual due to the turn, you have to pick up the runway at least a mile and a half out or you go missed.Hornit Delta MD-88 Captain (flying this tommorow!!)

Gentlemen:Thank you all for the very complete information and reference sources for KDCA. Part of my checkered past was spent living in and later visiting DC. And included a wild ride from Alexandria, thru rural northern Va. to Dulles in the sixties; made more interesting because no one in the car had ever made the trip before and the driver had no map. Thank goodness for airport beacons and delayed flights!Thanks again,JackD

Your questions seems to have been answered, but here's mine ;-)Normally, the River Visual 19 approach is used when winds cooperate and weather is above minimums. The LDA/DME is used when weather demands it... If on the LDA/DME you still call the river in site once you clear the clouds (minimums I believe are 700 Feet AGL).This is one of the best approaches in the Continental USA, minus some fun ones in the mountains.I'm not a real-world ATP Pilot, however a friend of mine is a retired Northwest Captain, who flew this approach almost daily.He has some good stories too ;-)He said he normally allowed his First Officers to fly the plane, but for this approach and takeoff (taking off on rwy 1 and flying the DCA 328 Radial) he always flew it himself as he loved it!He also told me that he would bank his 757 to the left as soon as the mains were off the ground scaring the crap out of his First Officers, thinking the left wing would scrape the ground ;-)Oh and if you were literally over the Lincoln memorial you were off course ;-)