Regarding the C-46 and others........

[HiFlyer 9,363]

Answering yet another plaintive query as to why all the WW2 cockpit-less aircraft; stone MSFlight replied:

 

The problem with new aircraft is that someone usually owns the rights to the aircraft, and that someone usually wants large amounts of money if someone else wants to use the aircraft likeness and make money off it. We actually had a couple very popular aircraft almost completely finished, but we had to shelve them due to licensing problems.

 

It sometimes feels like Flight faced walls in every direction. :unsure:

[SamYeager 244]

Ok I can see that would be an issue, especially with newer aircraft, but presumably there were licences in place for FSX and earlier? It sounds as though new licences were required for Flight but were they so much more expensive than the earlier licences? I'm having problems believing that, for instance, the licences for the cockpit of WW2 planes were that unaffordable.

 

Perhaps MS was trying to avoid committing to the more expensive licences until they were pretty certain that a VC plane would make money?

 

We actually had a couple very popular aircraft almost completely finished, but we had to shelve them due to licensing problems.

 

This sounds like a complete lack of forethought as surely most people would determine the licence cost before starting work. I can only assume MS believed the cost would be rather less than it ended up being when they decided to start work. I wonder if licence cost was a major factor in Flight being pulled?

[Mickel 42]

Fortunately for those of us who are satisfied enough with other sims, the third party developers aren't big enough to warrant chasing. Unfortunately for us (and Flight), MS is.

[HiFlyer 9,363]

I once suggested to Aerosoft the concept of Creating a model of Spaceship1, and perhaps also its Mothership WhiteKnight and Mojave Spaceport.

 

There was some interest at first (actually they said they would love to) but then the answer came back that the licensing would be prohibitively expensive (as in no-freaking-way)

 

Apparently prices have gone through the roof, which is stupid in that people apparently just never model the planes in question, and no money at all is made by anybody.

 

My primary interest in the statement though, is that it might explain what ate MVGibbages plane(s)

[n4gix 4,947]

I can only imagine what MS would be charged for a license, but presumably it would be far more than what Boeing wants to charge me for a project...

 

$2,000/year in advance, plus 12% gross sales payable quarterly...

 

...note that this is gross sales, not net-net, meaning that Boeing would actually "earn" more for doing nothing than I'd make for investing over two years of my professional development time in this project!

 

To think that some people imagine that we 3rd party folks are "getting rich by being so greedy!"

 

Pah! If it weren't that I so thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing, I'd make more digging potatoes or cleaning toilets!

[Prune 0]

It`s a sad situation when licencing and copyright start to dominate everything. Just look at the Apple vs Samsung battle.

[meshman 109]

Answering yet another plaintive query as to why all the WW2 cockpit-less aircraft; stone MSFlight replied:

 

So... Would it be safe to say that the "basic" planes that came earlier were because Microsoft didn't want to pay Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) a healthy licensing fee? If in fact he asked for one to do a cockpit?

[RoboRay 126]

Paul Allen does not own the intellectual property rights to the designs of those old warbirds. As they were created under contract for the US Government, I believe that makes their likenesses effectively public-domain for US citizens. It's the civil aircraft where you run into licensing issues.

[HiFlyer 9,363]

Yet we came so close! Another (partial) quote, about 3rd parties:

 

We designed the technical systems to support those scenarios, but there was a lot of other work needed to fully enable those relationships. The team was passionate about enabling 3rd party development. Flight wasn't in a state to make it possible yet, but even at the end we were still trying. If you think about it the first versions of Flight Simulator didn't support 3rd party devs either... It takes time.

 

In another vein, I was flying the C-46 today and flew into a multiplayer group looking for some fun. Without comment, nearly everyone in the group switched to their own C-46's.............

 

People are still buying.

 

It seems an opportunity that was not just lost, but thrown away.

[DarkstarF16 72]

Regarding the 'others' in the sense of Steam, although I'm not a Steam user i have a login and it tells you how many people are online and in the game. There is as much activity now as ever their was! Just now of 1631 members 485 were online with 123 in game!

[Gibbage 199]

I worked on a project many many years ago that was going to create a US Navy based combat flight sim. We asked Grumman how much they wanted to license there WWII aircraft (F4F, F6F and so on) and they wanted $60,000-$100,000 per aircraft type. Grumman also sued IL2/Pacific Fighters for using the aircraft without permission and Grumman's name and got around $250,000. Ubi paid it off without a fight. It was cheaper to pay the bill then fight with layers. Years ago even Cessna started attacking 3rd party dev's. Its a legal nightmare, and thin ice we all tread carefully on.

 

 

In another vein, I was flying the C-46 today and flew into a multiplayer group looking for some fun. Without comment, nearly everyone in the group switched to their own C-46's.............

 

People are still buying.

 

It seems an opportunity that was not just lost, but thrown away.

 

I think Flight did make money, just not enough money for a big company like MS to really care. In an interview, Joshua said he though he could get 20-30 MILLION people flying. If he promised those numbers to the big wigs at MS, and only got say 1 million (a HUGE number), it would be deemed a failure, since it didnt match his estimate. Simming is sadly a small group, and MS simply isent interested in making small change.

[mgh 89]

$2,000/year in advance, plus 12% gross sales payable quarterly...

 

Surely the point is that others were probably prepared to pay that for a .licence, so that's the market priice.

 

I don't think those paying that would be too happy to learn that cut-price deals ere being offered to others!

[HiFlyer 9,363]

Surely the point is that others were probably prepared to pay that for a .licence, so that's the market priice.

 

I don't think those paying that would be too happy to learn that cut-price deals ere being offered to others!

 

Others? Possibly true, but I would love to know who.............

 

I can barely think of a project that would be worth it. (at least not in this market) Easier to come up with "parody" planes that were close, but unique, and avoid the whole scenario.

 

Bleah.

[DarkstarF16 72]

Licenses... Arghhhhhh

 

Being in a different line of work, licenses are a big issue. As an example, our buyers can buy certain products from certain importers cheaper than, as a company we can source them and import them. Why? Because as a large company, we have to ensure that our own brand products are fully licensed. The third party importer doesn't care and can therefore, offer a product which they are responsible for legally. This product may, or may not be fully licensed, who knows? I certainly don't.

 

Because my company is large, who do you think the stake holders will go for? Yup you got it, my company because the returns for them are guaranteed. The small importer just moves warehouse and makes a profit. We don't bother sourcing certain product anymore because it's just not worth the huge effort to ensure we are fully compliant. Other company's who are cash rich do things differently. All I know is that it's a mine field out there and that its not a level playing field. Mind you, when was it ever?

 

MS have to do, and prove due diligence (oops I'm sounding like an MS defender, which I'm not. I'm just making assumptions) and be whiter than white. After all they are the big boys! In the past they may well have gotten away with it in the way they marketed or offered previous products, but in these austere days everyone is fighting for every penny/cent and their intellectual property.

 

The company's who will succeed are those with the best imaginations.

 

Sorry, rant now over!

 

[Voics 0]

In an interview, Joshua said he though he could get 20-30 MILLION people flying.

 

:LMAO: