Bristol86 I'm wondering why you even bother with the Air Simmer product when the Airbus X Extended is due any day now. Not sure if the systems will be as complex (though they are very good) but the graphics are phenomenal and Aerosoft have great customer support and will treat your custom with respect, unlike this moderator who doesn't seem to be able to act professionally or with any ounce of integrity.

 

Hi Kannwar

 

I've been out of the FS scene for a little while and didn't even know about this product, however it seems to only be for FSX.

 

If I were you I'd get my money back from Flight 1 and use it for the Airbus X Extended. I've never seen such a disgusting set of replies from a customer support person in all my life.

 

Couldn't agree more, if I spoke like that to my customers even once, I'd be in the queue at the job centre by the time my next pay cheque was due! Sadly the internet seems to have diluted people's expectations of customer service.

 

Why should he be blamed for taking a stand against this kind of thing? I think Bristol's original post is more than fair given his experience and he is right to make it known. This is the gift we have in a modern open market where the consumer should have the knowledge and the choice at their fingertips to make decisions as to where they will put their money. What you are saying is that he should hang his head and quietly go and ask for a bit of support like a scared little Oliver Twist asking for more when he gave his money to this company and is perfectly entitled to decent support.

 

I very much doubt there is anything he said initially at the AS forums that would warrant the response he has received.

 

Bang on the mark. The way he's reacted you'd think I'd shafted his nan or something. In reality I asked why a $40 add on (more than I paid for FS9!) references files in it's own tutorial which are not included!

I posted this as a warning to others for what to expect when they say something...anything....against the AirSimmer product on their forums

 

Objectively, your arguments about the rights of paying customers are reasonable. My problem with all this is I've seen only your side, thus your 'warning' is without sufficient basis.

 

Additionally, I've seen Rob go far beyond reasonable levels of support on several occasions, so your experience just raises more questions in my mind.

Objectively, your arguments about the rights of paying customers are reasonable. My problem with all this is I've seen only your side, thus your 'warning' is without sufficient basis.

 

Additionally, I've seen Rob go far beyond reasonable levels of support on several occasions, so your experience just raises more questions in my mind.

 

I agree, and am more than willing to post up anything that I have said as I have nothing to hide. The only thing I can't prove is what I said on the forums to generate the reaction in the first place, as Rob has deleted my post! I've been waiting for this information since our original conversation, and it's not forthcoming.

 

I have also read many helpful posts by Rob on here, which makes it even more bizarre for me to have caused such a palava.

Hi Kannwar

 

I've been out of the FS scene for a little while and didn't even know about this product, however it seems to only be for FSX.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more, if I spoke like that to my customers even once, I'd be in the queue at the job centre by the time my next pay cheque was due! Sadly the internet seems to have diluted people's expectations of customer service.

 

 

 

Bang on the mark. The way he's reacted you'd think I'd shafted his nan or something. In reality I asked why a $40 add on (more than I paid for FS9!) references files in it's own tutorial which are not included!

 

Ah sorry haven't had my coffee for the morning - didn't realize this was an FS9 addon. Oh well, one reason to consider coming over to FSX ;-).

 

And asking why a tutorial wasn't included in the addon install is a perfectly legitimate question in my view. I've not seen one good FSX aircraft addon that doesn't come with it's tutorial situation.

 

Just another thought - have you considered relaying your experience to Flight 1? Given that they are the publisher they would probably want to hear about the business practices of the developers they are publishing for since it has an effect on their image as well.

Get your money back via Flight1. I would also contact Flight1 and inform them of how you were treated and locked out of support for a product you purchased via their storefront. I would also attempt to find a contact at Airsimmer that doesn't go via the forum and then inform them of your experience.

Thanks for sharing this information with the rest of the community so we can make a good choice about where to spend our money.

I have noticed that most of the problems I have had with FS addons have been related to DRM. I can understand why developers think they need to gunk up their products with the DRM crap, but they should at least make sure their paying customers are able to access their purchases. Otherwise, their paying customers will soon become non-paying.

 

Many software developers are coming to the realization that consumers absolutely hate DRM. When it doesn't work right, those consumers become angry consumers. It actually does very little to stop piracy -- it just encourages it.

 

I think you need to ask Flight 1 for your money back. If you paid with PayPal, start the dispute process. If PayPal gets too many complaints about a merchant, they will shut down their account, meaning that merchant can no longer use PayPal. Flight 1 clearly has an obligation to provide you with a functioning product; they clearly breached their contract with you.

Lessons to be learnt.

 

(1) Buy through Flight 1 (so you can get a refund if necessary).

(2) Give "Air Simmer" a miss.

The whole issue arose because their website was "out of date", and their Forum Mod acted like a "Prima Donna".

(3) You purchased their product, you are entitled to Tech Support, and not insults on their forums.

 

Get your money back from Flight 1 (be sure to tell them why), and support an add-on company that will support you, and treats a Customer as if "the Customer is always right". (even if they are not).

 

This should NEVER have happened, or been allowed to get to this ridiculous "forum banning" situation.

 

Very bad PR for Air Simmer .. I certainly will not be buying anything from a company that treats their paying customers in this way.

 

Flight 1 clearly has an obligation to provide you with a functioning product; they clearly breached their contract with you.

 

I don't see Flight 1 doing anything wrong. They supplied the product, with a smooth transaction.

The issue was with "Air Simmer", and their poor support of their product, their "out of date" website registration, and inappropriate forum moderation,.

 

---------------

 

Just checked out the Air Simmer's website.

Looks like a good team of mainly Russian Professionals.

 

Seems a GREAT SHAME that a "Forum Mod", who does not even get a mention on their webpage as being "part of the team", is letting the team down so badly...

I have noticed that most of the problems I have had with FS addons have been related to DRM. I can understand why developers think they need to gunk up their products with the DRM crap, but they should at least make sure their paying customers are able to access their purchases. Otherwise, their paying customers will soon become non-paying.

 

Many software developers are coming to the realization that consumers absolutely hate DRM. When it doesn't work right, those consumers become angry consumers. It actually does very little to stop piracy -- it just encourages it.

 

I think you need to ask Flight 1 for your money back. If you paid with PayPal, start the dispute process. If PayPal gets too many complaints about a merchant, they will shut down their account, meaning that merchant can no longer use PayPal. Flight 1 clearly has an obligation to provide you with a functioning product; they clearly breached their contract with you.

 

+1 couldn't agree more! Everyone knows pirates cut right through DRM like a hot knife through a sponge cake in short order. The only ones being prohibited from using the product are the legitimate customers and the sooner devs and publishers realize this, the better.

 

I have a feeling this mod is going to be fired once whatever management at AS sees the PR disaster this one person's actions are creating for them. That is, if they even care =S.

I'm sorry but from my perspective as an ACTUAL customer who HAS vociferously criticized AS myself without being banned or having my posts hidden, this is almost weirdly funny. I see a well known figure in the fs world who bends over backwards to help every last person who needs it, not just since joining AS but from waaaay back.

 

Clearly something went dreadfully wrong in this case, but I maintain that one person's subjective recounting of events is no basis for reasoned judgement.

Get your money back via Flight1. I would also contact Flight1 and inform them of how you were treated and locked out of support for a product you purchased via their storefront. I would also attempt to find a contact at Airsimmer that doesn't go via the forum and then inform them of your experience.

Thanks for sharing this information with the rest of the community so we can make a good choice about where to spend our money.

 

I have no qualms with Flight 1, and shall certainly be letting them know of my experience - it might make them look closely at who they enter into these arrangements with.

 

I'm happy to take this incident on the chin if it stops others getting burned.

 

I have noticed that most of the problems I have had with FS addons have been related to DRM. I can understand why developers think they need to gunk up their products with the DRM crap, but they should at least make sure their paying customers are able to access their purchases. Otherwise, their paying customers will soon become non-paying.

 

Many software developers are coming to the realization that consumers absolutely hate DRM. When it doesn't work right, those consumers become angry consumers. It actually does very little to stop piracy -- it just encourages it.

 

I think you need to ask Flight 1 for your money back. If you paid with PayPal, start the dispute process. If PayPal gets too many complaints about a merchant, they will shut down their account, meaning that merchant can no longer use PayPal. Flight 1 clearly has an obligation to provide you with a functioning product; they clearly breached their contract with you.

 

As I said, no problem with Flight 1 - I know that I can go to them any time in the post 30 day period and get a full refund, which I'm still considering. I shall run the airbus into the ground before that time elapses and decide whether I want to keep it or not on its own merits, not because of a bad experience with a customer support rep.

DRM... My reason for not buying video games is thanks to this, too many restrictions such as you must play online, even if it's an offline game.

 

I am not encouraging piracy, but pirated version is worth more because it's more "free".

 

 

With flight simulation products I would have no problem buying, their DRM is less restrictive. But before I would buy something, I must check it won't mess with my windows folder since I recall flight 1 puts "security" things there... I simply want nothing extra in windows folder.

 

However, if I'm wrong, correct me. And devs reading this, please drop the DRM as it will just make problems with the paying customer, the pirate will crack it like if it was a candy!

I'm sorry but from my perspective as an ACTUAL customer who HAS vociferously criticized AS myself without being banned or having my posts hidden, this is almost weirdly funny. I see a well known figure in the fs world who bends over backwards to help every last person who needs it, not just since joining AS but from waaaay back.

 

Clearly something went dreadfully wrong in this case, but I maintain that one person's subjective recounting of events is no basis for reasoned judgement.

 

If I'm being totally honest, I can't make sense of it either as everything else I've come across from Rob seems helpful and more often than not perfectly polite.

 

As I've explained, my actual original forum post was deleted by Rob, but I believe it was something like "for $40 the product should come with the files referred to in the tutorial, no?" or words to that effect. Certainly not any grounds for unpleasant PM's and forum banning. But until I get told what I said I can't provide any further detail sadly, this was a week ago.

 

But what I can say is that nothing I've said in my original post is made up or has been altered, and I still have the chain of PMs verifying that.

I'd just let it go, and ask for the refund from Flight1.

 

 

 

Part of your purchase includes support, and they obviously aren't going to provide that for you.

 

 

 

That being said, the patience level of payware customers appears to be rapidly declining. Sometimes things don't quite work as you planned, or you need more information to get it running, and that help is not always going to be there right when you want it.

 

 

I just had an issue with a new payware product I bought from Just Flight; nothing wrong on their end, just something that needed to be setup correctly. Because of the time zone difference, it took 3, maybe 4 days to get it straightened out by email. It happens; nothing anyone can do about it.

 

Its easy to forget that most of these companies are small, and they dont' have people sitting in front of a computer 24hrs a day just waiting for you. Its no different than any other local brick-and-mortar store in your town.

 

 

Also, now having said that, the moderator of that site could've showed a little more restraint.

 

 

 

Edit to add: I just browsed the air simmer forum, and the guy really seems to be going out of his way to help people that haven't even purchased it yet.

Hey Bristol! stop whining like paris hilton and get your money back if you like.. Rob is a nice and polite man as far as I know and he is the ONLY reason why simmers are willing to give Airsimmer another try

Terrible support. I only deal with companies with good support. -

 

So far from my experience I can recommend:

 

Flight deck solutions - Peter Cos will answer any questions you have personally.

OPUS - excellent software, and again the author will answer any question you have in a heart beat