Whoa, George, I never called Randy a shill. Nor was it my intention to intimate that. My reason for asking if he owned both was to point out that folks who don't really can't make valid comparisons.Now if somebody does indeed own both competing products then clearly they might have something to offer their fellow simmers (if they offer objective opinions and comparisons).Regards,Greg

Paul,I can assure you that George is anything but a troll. He has been around the forums for quite some time. Also note the moderator icon next to his name - that means something in case it wasn't obvious. Perhaps one should watch out who they call a troll, hmm?

>Paul,>>I can assure you that George is anything but a troll. He has>been around the forums for quite some time. Also note the>moderator icon next to his name - that means something in case>it wasn't obvious. Perhaps one should watch out who they call>a troll, hmm?Uh, I think you mis-read...there is a question mark following the troll statment.I was asking George if he thought it was funny when trolls come in here etc...Moderators! Twoohy! Oh wow! Big fregin Moderator badge huh? Ptooy!Just kidding!You guys gotta get slaped once in a while just so you can feel like yer part of the gang! :-lol

Paul,If I misread your statement then I apologize, ignore previous post directed at you.

>Unfortunately, as said above, this thread will I'm sure be>locked shortly. Please, God. We can only hope.>As far as the argument of Randy owning or not owning the Ariane>goes. That doesn't hold any water with me at all. The>pictures, various comments and advertising are more than>enough to base a comparison. (After all, I don't and never>have owned a Yugo. But I sure know it's a piece of trash) Yes, George, and you are probably making a fairly good informed decision there, too. But if you were to publish a review of said Yugo in Car and Driver based on the same, you'd certainly fail to meet any reasonable standard of fairness expected of such a review.And if you were a test driver for Rennault and published the same, your credibility would not only be in question, but might be thought of as something less than honest or fair.Randy is a beta tester for PMDG and publicly carries himself like he's a fully paid member of the development team there. He can't possibly be unbiased, and to masquerade this piece of so-called review literature as same is at the very least deceptive.Pleeeease, Tom, lock it up...LOCK IT UP!!!Bob

>Paul,>>If I misread your statement then I apologize, ignore previous>post directed at you.No need for that Fred, its hard to get a good read on each other here at times, but this always home for me and can take the good and the bad.Cheers!

Greg,No, I know you didn't call Randy a shill, another poster did. As I said, I have absolutely no problem with your opinion, nor anyone else's. Just have a problem with the personal attacks like "shill" and then "troll" from my obviously misinformed friend Paul. Randy may be a lot of things, but a troll or a shill ain't one of them :)Everyone will have their personal opinions of post's, poster's and subject matter. I just believe that it serves no purpose to start "slinging" names. Don't get me wrong, I'll blast out with both barrels if someone on the forum starts getting personal, as will Randy, but it usually doesn't accomplish much.No problems with you or anyone else Greg. :)

Fair enough Bob*:-*

... because it is NOT about Ariane or PMDG but about ego's!When I asked the question about Ariane, the thread was locked within 15 minutes. If the whole argument is about ONE single individual and his role in Ariane, then surely we could start a new thread of every single other flightsim company who ripped us off! Who stole our money and never bothered to repay or reply!Wouldn't that be an ego trip per exellence?Go boys go!PS: Please Tom stop this nonsense and delete this whole thread?

>Hmmm... still no reply from Randy regarding his ownership of>the Ariane package. Pretty much his brief review>meaningless.I don't consider it a 'review'. Randy compiled an interesting list - however he managed to put together this information. Interestingly no Ariane 737NG owner came forward to say Randy was wrong on any point. To me it is just a list - it definitely gives more info about Ariane package than Ariane's own website.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

I wonder why Randy, whom I repect very much, would start such a thread. Seems like it was meant to start a war, right from the get-go.PMDG makes an excellent product, I'll give them that much, but has POOR customer support on a 1 to 1 basis.Not sure about Ariane, but I've not heard good things about them either. I agree with the other posters, this needs to be locked.

Randy's final 3 paragraghs are his opinions (which he's entitled to), and therefore constitute a review.Greg

> If the whole argument is about ONE single>individual and his role in Ariane,No, for your info this thread is about x,y,z features of Ariane, PMDG 737NGs. >PS: Please Tom stop this nonsense and delete this whole>threadTerblanche - why don't you convince Ariane folks to have their own support forum where we could get solid info about their product. But until then please do not interfere when someone attempts to have discussion about technical merits of both products. If you disgaree with some of Randy's comparisons - please speak up and be specific. Michael J.

MichaelThat's what I asked in the original thread last night and the thread was locked within a couple of minutes.Then Randy came along and started a new thread with his views on the Ariane aircraft (for which I am greatful) and after that a string of replies NOT about the aircraft but again about the politics of the company.Once I have the Ariane 737-900 I would like to comment on it but I'm afraid it will be locked again or we will fall again into an ego trip regarding personal views on 'the individual' within or without Ariane. And make no mistake, I will keep on nagging Ariane for a forum until they set one up. They (Ariane) have promised a forum and as they say in the movies: LET'S SEE!Just one last note. I have bought some other stuff from Ariane before and yet to this day have to come across the name of a Mr Tishma in any mail between Ariane and myself, any manual, any text file, any reference except on flightsim forums like this one.(sigh)O well, all the pax are onboard now and it's time to close the door. See you at another airport. Perhaps.

I own the Ariane 737NG, so I know of what I'm speaking. And, I own the PMDG 737 as well.First of all, I must say that I love both of them: the PMDG bird because of its "completeness", and the Ariane because of its superb hand flying characteristics.Secondly, one can hardly compare these two products at the moment: PMDG had its time to work out bugs (more than a year passed since the 737NG 600/700 was released), Ariane is new here, give them some more time.It's clear that an announcement like "most sophisticated NG sim ever" is dangerous and of course leads to comparisons with other products. That's something Ariane has to deal with.Until they have their own forum where users can post, it's somehow difficult to discuss this topic at all. It surely helps nobody if some PMDG-biased simmers complain about the Ariane aircraft.Agreed, some important things like VNAV don't work correctly at the moment. I'm in contact with Ariane to help them sort out the bugs, and I'm sure we'll get this in order together.One last word: don't compare the PMDG FMC with the Ariane one, it's a different type (Smith's). Many other systems seem to be different as well, so I wouldn't dare to write that something's wrong without exactly knowing what I'm talking about (e.g. there's no ALT INT mode at all, nor does a SPD INTV mode exist for any 737).I suggest to give the Ariane people a chance. At least they present themselves as honest and professional, and all their mails have this touch. Sure, the sim is expensive. But maybe you'd say it's worth it if the 2D panel came out, the OPS expansion is working and bugs eliminated?Every add-on has its own flair, and as I said before: I love them all!Andreas (LOWW)