Any word on when the 64 bit update will be available? I got the email in November, but since then, not a peep.

X-Aviation participates in the forums here: http://www.x-pilot.com

 

This topic is probably of interest to you: http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php/topic/4106-solved-x-plane-10-beta-5-32bit-64bit-crj-200/?p=42488

I got the email and your reply to my web inquiry, which I thank you for answering. I have to say, I am a bit frustrated that X-Aviation customers don't even have the option to beta test the update that was put out by Philipp Muenzel, who is a co-developer of the CRJ with Javier Rollon. While I understand that Laminar has asked that developers not publish updates, they did mention in the same posting that beta updates were okay. As long as it's offered with the understanding that there are no guarantees of usability, I can't see why it isn't offered as an optional download with, for example, a click through disclaimer of the beta nature and all the usual caveats.

 

Of the three main retailers that offer the CRJ, X-Aviation is the only one that refuses to release the 64 bit patch. You have to understand that this apparent arbitrary stance you're taking isn't exactly conducive to future purchases.

I apologize if this is less than satisfactory for you, Jon. Of all the retailers, we have the largest customer base on this product and work closely with Laminar as often as we can.

 

It would certainly be sad to lose you as a customer over this, and at this time I'll remind you that this is the first time in the history of updates or releases that we have been behind everyone else, but there is good reason behind it on a very rare occasion (we'll only have to transition to 64-bit once).

 

I understand the best way is to vote with your wallet and that you have the option to take your business elsewhere. Just know that we'll always be there to assist you promptly and professionally should you ever need it.

 

Thanks for taking the time to share your concerns and read this, Jon. All the best, and a Happy New Year!

I got the email and your reply to my web inquiry, which I thank you for answering. I have to say, I am a bit frustrated that X-Aviation customers don't even have the option to beta test the update that was put out by Philipp Muenzel, who is a co-developer of the CRJ with Javier Rollon. While I understand that Laminar has asked that developers not publish updates, they did mention in the same posting that beta updates were okay. As long as it's offered with the understanding that there are no guarantees of usability, I can't see why it isn't offered as an optional download with, for example, a click through disclaimer of the beta nature and all the usual caveats.

 

Of the three main retailers that offer the CRJ, X-Aviation is the only one that refuses to release the 64 bit patch. You have to understand that this apparent arbitrary stance you're taking isn't exactly conducive to future purchases.

 

Go check out my thread about the org store.. sure they have the 64 bit version but I rather use 32 bit for now ( plus no 64 bit xsb) and have great customer service and support, that I already had to use, then deal with the org store.

Go check out my thread about the org store.. sure they have the 64 bit version but I rather use 32 bit for now ( plus no 64 bit xsb) and have great customer service and support, that I already had to use, then deal with the org store.

 

Aerosoft also sells it, incl. 64 bit support.

Aerosoft also sells it, incl. 64 bit support.

 

Now there's a twist, 3rd party sellers offers update, that the developer doesn't! It's usually the other way around!!

Now there's a twist, 3rd party sellers offers update, that the developer doesn't! It's usually the other way around!!

 

The developer DID do the upgrade. X-Aviation isn't the developer. They're just a retailer. JRollon made the aircraft with Philipp Muenzel, who also worked with Ramzzess on the 777 Worldliner. Philipp is the one who released the 64 bit upgrade as version 1.5.3. The retailers are the ones responsible for getting the upgrade to the end user. Aerosoft and the X-Plane.org store have it. X-Aviation doesn't.

 

The developer DID do the upgrade. X-Aviation isn't the developer. They're just a retailer. JRollon made the aircraft with Philipp Muenzel, who also worked with Ramzzess on the 777 Worldliner. Philipp is the one who released the 64 bit upgrade as version 1.5.3. The retailers are the ones responsible for getting the upgrade to the end user. Aerosoft and the X-Plane.org store have it. X-Aviation doesn't.

 

Hi, Jon,

 

There's a lot more than meets the eye to this, but I would rather not complicate things as its not very professional to do so.

 

The reality in simpler form is that the org and Aerosoft run a different version of the plugin than X-Aviation. As the initial and sole distributor for six months our infrastructure is different. Combining these facts with the fact that we work very closely with Laminar on a daily basis, the advice was we not release 64-bit (to be frank, we weren't ready on the day other retailers did). One of the retailers you have listed actually pre-maturely released 64-bit as a misunderstanding, which, as you can imagine created a bit of a fiasco and a second followed suit as a result of this. A day later Laminar made the public announcement to not distribute products as 64-bit (it's advised to do internal beta, though I understand this isn't easily interpreted).

 

I really do realize you feel we are trying to control you, however, there is a much bigger picture here with a number of things you were obviously unaware of (one being you likely thought that the plugin and its libraries are universally the same across the board). Rather than knock anyone we are ensuring that our customers will be well taken care of as best and quickly as we can while also maintaining a balance of professionalism along the way.

 

The reality is we love our customers and are very appreciative and responsive as much as allowed. This is a scenario where a limitation is in effect and will remain so for a short time longer.

 

Again, I apologize for what is undoubtedly a frustrating experience for you at this time.

Hi, Jon,

 

There's a lot more than meets the eye to this, but I would rather not complicate things as its not very professional to do so.

 

The reality in simpler form is that the org and Aerosoft run a different version of the plugin than X-Aviation. As the initial and sole distributor for six months our infrastructure is different. Combining these facts with the fact that we work very closely with Laminar on a daily basis, the advice was we not to release 64-bit (to be frank, we weren't ready on the day other retailers did). One of the retailers you have listed actually pre-maturely released 64-bit as a misunderstanding, which, as you can imagine created a bit of a fiasco and a second followed suit as a result of this. A day later Laminar made the public announcement to not distribute products as 64-bit (it's advised to do internal beta, though I understand this isn't easily interpreted).

 

I really do realize you feel we are trying to control you, however, there is a much bigger picture here with a number of things you were obviously unaware of (one being you likely thought that the plugin and its libraries are universally the same across the board). Rather than knock anyone we are ensuring that our customers will be well taken care of as best and quickly as we can while also maintaining a balance of professionalism along the way.

 

The reality is we love our customers and are very appreciative and responsive as much as allowed. This is a scenario where a limitation is in effect and will remain so for a short time longer.

 

Again, I apologize for what is undoubtedly a frustrating experience for you at this time.

 

Cameron, I didn't mean this to turn into a big fiasco. In my frustration, I let go of discretion, and that was my first mistake. I understand that the issue is with Gizmo's incompatibility with 64 bit. Honestly, until now, I've never had a problem with Gizmo. I understand that it's what you use for DRM, but now it seems to be a hindrance. It's well known that X-Plane is in a constant state of flux due to the development process Laminar uses, so perhaps this might be an indication that alternative methods of DRM should be explored.

 

I didn't mean this to turn into a thread of ranting and raving, rather I was looking at the facts as they are known to me. It's clear now that I don't have all the facts.

 

Just so I'm clear, is work on making Gizmo 64 bit compatible going on now, or are you waiting for an RC?

Just so I'm clear, is work on making Gizmo 64 bit compatible going on now, or are you waiting for an RC?

 

Hi, Jon,

 

We have already compiled Gizmo in 64-bit and have been internally testing this against products. We began work on this on day one of 10.2's beta release. We are being very thorough in our testing and completion of this and things have gone quite well.

 

Should it interest you, have a read on Laminar's blog about LuaJit and 64-bit. There were many challenges we faced and overcame to get this working. Not only did our efforts get Gizmo working, but also SASL, which is used in products like the 777 and Carenado.

Hi, Jon,

 

We have already compiled Gizmo in 64-bit and have been internally testing this against products. We began work on this on day one of 10.2's beta release. We are being very thorough in our testing and completion of this and things have gone quite well.

 

Should it interest you, have a read on Laminar's blog about LuaJit and 64-bit. There were many challenges we faced and overcame to get this working. Not only did our efforts get Gizmo working, but also SASL, which is used in products like the 777 and Carenado.

 

Thanks. What are the chances of putting a beta out for current customers? Might as well do a little crowdsourcing while we wait for v.10.20 to go stable.

<br />Thanks. What are the chances of putting a beta out for current customers? Might as well do a little crowdsourcing while we wait for v.10.20 to go stable. <br />

 

Hi, Jon,

 

We'll certainly do so when we're ready to. Gizmo is a component and is not the end all for the CRJ. It is for some products, however. There is a misconception by some people that all Gizmo does is activations, but it actually drives the systems for various products like the DC-3, Corvalis, upcoming MU-2 update, the Saab 340, and the impending IXEG 737. One thing you should know is that Gizmo doesn't actually control DRM per se, but it facilitates the ease of activation through web calls rather than making someone type a bunch of boring alphanumeric key combos. In short, we minimize the hassle to the customer during one of the least interesting parts of getting a product. There is an entirely different library that controls the DRM (not Gizmo, unlike you stated). This too has begun conversion but is not complete. We are managing everything in a prioritized way. Some beta updates released by Laminar for 64-bit have already broken some plug-ins we have developed (as Laminar warned may happen and why we should not release anything to the wild yet), so these are the types of things we fix first.

 

We have thousands upon thousands of customers using these plugins and we must maintain a balance to ensure our workload is being properly allocated. For right now it's a matter of sending out beta software which will inundate us with support instead of productivity vs. the smaller in-house beta team already assisting in catching the bugs in a well organized manner and keeping us productive where we should be.

 

I recently was having a little conference among some developers (not associated to X-Aviation). We were discussing this 64-bit transition, and one thing we've seen very common is that the average customer is not treating 64-bit as the beta that it is, but instead as if it's the only product or version of X-Plane in existence. This was not Laminar's purpose when the beta was released, and they have tried about 10 different ways to explain that to people. At the end of the day, 32-bit has always been there and our products still work the same in it. Of course, we understand why 64-bit is imperative for many people but the truth is the truth! As an impatient person myself I can understand the desire and urgency, but there are also times I need to take a step back and re-analyze the big picture.

 

We'll get there, Jon. I promise.

I recently was having a little conference among some developers (not associated to X-Aviation). We were discussing this 64-bit transition, and one thing we've seen very common is that the average customer is not treating 64-bit as the beta that it is, but instead as if it's the only product or version of X-Plane in existence.

 

Sorry, but was this really a surprise for anyone?

I think this was totally obvious even before they started the 10.20 beta.

In the X-Plane community the use of beta versions is totally normal, if you like it or not. There are simply to many nice features that few people really bother with the slight instability.

Normally this is no real problem if there are not such fundamental changes as in this case.

In fact I was really wondering if an open beta was a sensible way to introduce 64 bit plug-ins.

 

But in fact there are even more problems involved. Many Add-ons especially the CRJ-200 and the Boeing 777 ran into out of memory situations before 10.20. In fact especially the CRJ had a severe stability problem with 1.5.2 . There had to be a solution for the CRJ and in fact the 64 bit version solved these problems.

 

And if I look at the community I would bet that many Add-ons will use so many extras, before the year ends, that they will be totally unusable under 32 bit. This is more or less obvious so I think that it will be very hard to explain that to the people.

Sorry, but was this really a surprise for anyone?

I think this was totally obvious even before they started the 10.20 beta.

 

Let me quote myself again since you selectively quoted it to take it out of context: Of course, we understand why 64-bit is imperative for many people but the truth is the truth! As an impatient person myself I can understand the desire and urgency, but there are also times I need to take a step back and re-analyze the big picture.

 

In the X-Plane community the use of beta versions is totally normal, if you like it or not.

 

Having been around X-Plane since 1998 I am well aware of the usual goings.

 

In fact I was really wondering if an open beta was really a sensible way to introduce 64 bit plug-ins.

 

Trust me, this has been debated many times amongst many people in the "developer world" and with Laminar. At the end of the day we are where we are and that's the deal. The only thing we can do now is suck it up and roll with the punches!

 

And if I look at the community I would bet that many Add-ons will use so many extras, before the year ends, that they will be totally unusable under 32 bit.

 

I actually would bet against this. While 64-bit will become the program of choice, I do not believe that this will be the year 32-bit is fully incapable based on features. Perhaps by choice, yes, but not features. For the record, I am all for 64-bit. That said, I too have my moments of impatience and wish things would hurry along much like Jon wishes we would do for the CRJ release. A good example would be for my desire to see VATSIM compatibility relatively quickly. Sadly, I don't see this happening on short order. This is one thing our customer base uses very widely, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.