Honestly, FSX still needs more clock speed than it does core count.

 

I think this is generally well understood by now, but as mentioned my next build will not be based only on how it performs for FSX. I believe either XPlane 10 64-bit, or something else that uses multicores, more ram, DirectX 11+, etc WILL COME. So my next build will need to run FSX much better than my old Core2 Quad runs it (which is still very serviceable), but will be built to run the more modern engine I just described really really well.

 

However, XPlane 64bit leverages/scales hardware better so the X3980 will be a good choice there.

 

Haswell-DT isn't going to do much for FSX and it's 4 core (don't set Affinity to 4 core if you only have 4 cores, do this if you have a 6 core ore more system), I'd rather go with the X3980 8 core or wait for Broadwell-D (14nm) which might be out by end of 2013.

 

I'm not building any more systems based solely on FSX. I'm looking at either IB-E, or IB-EP, or Haswell-E or -EP now. 12 cores sounds good. My question is just how much overclocking one can get (TIM discussion aside) out of 6, 8, 12 cores, etc. As long as there is significant overclocakability, then for sure more cores is where I'm going. I am going 'on the come' for either XP-10 64bit, or something yet to rear its head but fully capable of leveraging all that modern hardware. I have assumed that there is an inverse relationship between number of cores and max possible clock speed, but I don't know exactly what the inverse relationship is in this regard. For example, if you can o'c 4 cores to 4.5Ghz on water, can you expect only 4.2Ghz w/ 6 cores?, etc...

 

The days of keeping up with hardware changes to make FSX run better ended for me 4.5 years ago. Bang for buck isn't there, my old workhorse STILL gives me beau coup pleasure in FSX, etc. I'll be tickled though w/ the next build if I can get it to run FSX 50% better than the old rig does, which sounds very likely by all accounts.

For example, if you can o'c 4 cores to 4.5Ghz on water, can you expect only 4.2Ghz w/ 6 cores?, etc...

 

Yes and No, you can expect to run the same Ghz across 4 or 6 or 8 as die's continue to shrink. If you want future proof and provided the developer(s) of a game/sim are coding for threading, then more cores would be my preference over pure clock speed.

 

The good news is that Visual Stuido 2012 has MUCH better debugging support for multithreaded games and is now fully part of VS 2012. It's also a lot easier to manage/implement the threading code with the new Async and Await -- this allows you to spawn threads and wait for them to complete before continuing (such as rendering a frame) -- a threading traffic cop which is very critical when it comes to "real time" processing and many threads need to complete before a frame is produced. It just makes threading that much easier to implement and debug.

 

I have a 64 CPU (4 X 16 CPU cores at only 2.3Ghz) AMD box that I use exclusively for rendering Cinema 4D animation/content ... it completes renders about 3X faster than a 12 CPU (2 X 6) Intel Xeon 3.46Ghz (from Cinebench tests) for 1/2 the cost -- but that's just rendering which is not real time just a simple process of divide and conquer.

 

It sounds like LR will move XPlane more in the direction of threading so the future may indeed NOT be Ghz but how many CPUs (who knows, maybe AMD will be viable again with their cheap 16 core CPUs).

 

 

The ultimate over powered over kill I know is that exact set up. How much money do you think it will cost?

 

I think the cost will be somewhere near 2200 Australian Dollars ($)

 

 

However, XPlane 64bit leverages/scales hardware better so the X3980 will be a good choice there.

 

Hi Rob,

 

I'm aiming now for i7 3980X or the Ivy Bridge version depending on what they did w/ the TIM issue for these IB-E chips.  I'm also loathe to use water cooling after reading of one guy's fluid leak from a brand name (H110) cooler.  The fact that it's essentially possible to have a leak (I assume after reading that) this makes me want to consider the Noctua air cooler.  This being the case, can you recommend a case that will work for this CPU and that air cooler?  Or if I get brave, the H110?

I wouldn't condemn water cooling just because of one person having a leak ... if you think the H110 has a manufacturing problem, then do some research on it and see if you get a lot of people having leaks with it.  Also keep in mind "who the installer was" ... do you personally know them, how careful are they with installs, their knowledge base and experience level, etc. etc.

 

But if you like a quiet PC, water cooling is the way to go ... key is in install, especially the water block to CPU.

 

I've done many water cooling systems over the years and not a single one has leaked on me.

 

I'm using a Cooler Master HAF 932 and it has bee working well, just need to blow out the dust every month.

Well, that sounds pretty safe if you do quality work and your due diligence in part selection.

 

I'd like to pick up the H110 after doing as much research on leaks as I can.  I haven't found any testimonies of leaks in my first web search.  Can you recommend a great case for that cooler model?  So far from looking at Corsair's site I think the 650D is the best fit for me, but I'd love other recommendations if you have any.

Honestly, I don't think any of the canned water kits like the Corsair H series cools any better or is any quieter than a good (and I emphasize good) air cooler like the NH-D14...so why take the risk of a leak?

 

Now a good custom water system is different--can be much quieter, efficient etc. I use a custom water loop with large-bore tubing, quiet low-flow fans and radiators designed for them, and high quality water blocks for the CPU/GPU. The result is a whisper-quiet system with much better temps (~20-30C lower) than any air cooler I've tried.

 

Regards

 

 

Honestly, I don't think any of the canned water kits like the Corsair H series cools any better or is any quieter than a good (and I emphasize good) air cooler like the NH-D14...so why take the risk of a leak?

 

It's a good point you make, however the risk I am considering is contrasted against the benefits of not crowding the CPU & memory mainly.   The big heavy part just seems pretty crude.  Hard to get the real prevalence of leaks in properly installed H110s.  What really puzzles me, again because I can't get a handle on the real risks, is the fact Corsair and all other late model closed loop products, haven't come up w/ a system that is near 100% leak proof unless physically altered.  Maybe they have, I don't know.  I'd like to see 1 leak per 100,000 kits, or something along those lines.  That's possible I'm sure, though might cost more.   After using the best possible hoses, pumps & leaks, you pressure test it to a very high level, etc.  Maybe the cost for this aviation-grade component would be too high.

Honestly, I don't think any of the canned water kits like the Corsair H series cools any better or is any quieter than a good (and I emphasize good) air cooler like the NH-D14...so why take the risk of a leak?

 

Now a good custom water system is different--can be much quieter, efficient etc. I use a custom water loop with large-bore tubing, quiet low-flow fans and radiators designed for them, and high quality water blocks for the CPU/GPU. The result is a whisper-quiet system with much better temps (~20-30C lower) than any air cooler I've tried.

 

Regards

 

Bob is correct.

 

The NH-D14 is actually quieter than the best all-in-one cooling set up.

 

If you look at the reviews, the NZXT Kraken, beats the D14 by a mere 2 degrees, overclocked, and under full load.... however, if you look at the noise levels, it's much louder than the NH-D14.

 

In other words, that reduction in temp, compared to the D14, has been achieved with higher RPM, nosier fans.

 

With the same fans on both coolers, the NH-D14 is superior.

 

The following review of the D14, compared to the all-in-one coolers, illustrates my point.

 

Temps here...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,13.html

 

Kraken X60 70 degrees

Corsair H110 72 degrees

NH-D14 72 degrees

 

Noise levels here...

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,11.html

 

Kraken 47 DBA

NH-D14 40 DBA

Corsair H110 39 DBA

 

The H110 is the best bet, in terms of noise levels and cooling, equal to The D14. However, no worries about leaks at all with the D14.

 

 

 

The big heavy part just seems pretty crude.

 

I'm not trying to persuade you to opt for the D14, as there are advantages and disadvantages. The NH-D14 is NOT the best solution for everybody. But no, I don't think "big heavy and crude" is a fair assessment. The NH-D14 is very well designed.

 

The centrally mounted 140 fan, provides great airflow over the motherboard, as it overhangs the heat sink fins. And as I said in the other thread, the Noctua mounting system is very good, so no issues with the weight.

 

Whether the D14 fits in your case is the issue, but that applies to the Corsair H110 as well, in terms of fitting the radiator. RAM clearance is your main issue I would say. But then again, there's nothing wrong with low profile RAM, devoid of gimmicky huge heat sinks.

 

At the end of the day, it's personal choice, aesthetics, performance, noise levels cooling. But no, I wouldn't say the D14 is a crude solution. It's engineered well, cool and quiet.

 

 

What really puzzles me, again because I can't get a handle on the real risks, is the fact Corsair and all other late model closed loop products, haven't come up w/ a system that is near 100% leak proof unless physically altered.

 

I agree with you, something like an epoxy seal over the whole damn thing.

 

Failure rate is something that the manufacturers are keeping to themselves. Guess we will never know.

At the end of the day, it's personal choice, aesthetics, performance, noise levels cooling. But no, I wouldn't say the D14 is a crude solution. It's engineered well, cool and quiet.

 

Sure, I'm just saying a very heavy large object bolted over the CPU seems crude compared to the small block from the water coolers like the H110.  I'm sure it does what you say and is engineered well to do the task.  Martin, tell me:  if you have to remove your ram, I'm assuming you're having to remove the D14, yeah or nay?

 

The other compelling argument for me for the D14 is what the heck does one do w/ the PSS when the radiator is attached inside the top of the case where the PSS normally lives?  Do you have a case recommendation for the D14?

Regarding RAM, it depends how many slots are populated.

 

After removing the rear fan.

 

Slot 1 = No, can't be removed.

Slot 2 = Just about

Slot 3 = yes

Slot 4  = yes

 

I use an old Lian Li P50, it's a mid sized case. The D14 fits in great, so it doesn't necessarily apply that you need a huge case.

 

I recall you mentioned the Corsair 650D. I looked at this case a while ago and recall that the D14 fits in nicely.

 

There are plenty of enclosures the D14 will fit in. It's a case of checking the dimensions on the Noctua site, and for your chosen enclosure, and perhaps some research on the net to make sure others are having no issues fitting the D14.

Well, that sounds pretty safe if you do quality work and your due diligence in part selection.

 

I'd like to pick up the H110 after doing as much research on leaks as I can.  I haven't found any testimonies of leaks in my first web search.  Can you recommend a great case for that cooler model?  So far from looking at Corsair's site I think the 650D is the best fit for me, but I'd love other recommendations if you have any.

 

per my other response ... I'm using Cooler Master HAF 932 - this is the case.

 

CPU to water block - you don't want excessive weight on the CPU, you do however want the correct level of tension between the CPU and water block ... this can be accomplished with spring/bolt combination.  Too much tension can be just as bad as too little tension ... what you want is consistant even tension across the surface.

 

Spring/Bolt combination is good because as things heat up, the spring will allow for heat expansion.

 

 

When it comes to the number of cores that you use with FSX you need to find the compromise between FPS and smoothness that suits your own system and preferences, for me it is 3 physical cores as it is for anyone that has found an AffinityMask of 14 (quad core no HT) or 84 (quad core with HT) works best for them.

 

Can anyone verify this please?