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huppel69

Some more questions...

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Hi,

 

Tried to use the seach functionality of the forum but couldn't find the answers, so I'll try it this way:

 

- If approaching an airfield with no approach controller and my last waypiont in the flightplan is the VOR on the airfield, then when I request an IAP full approach which is granted do I then direcly fly the approach (assuming the IAF is reached before the mentioned VOR) or are you suppost to first complete your flightplan and only then fly the approach (which wouldn't make much sense)? I guess what I'm asking is that "cleared for the full approach" means you no longer have to follow your initial flightplan...

- Again airfield with no approach controller and also no tower: does "cleared for the full approach" also include "cleared to land"? I flew this lesson today and after the "cleared full approach" I was never given landing clearance. I thought I was not supposed to call "field in sight" as that would mean a transition from the IAP approach to a visual approach or am I wrong?

- Just wondering how this would work in real life: suppose you cancel you IFR in the air and then have missed approach for some reason (obvious not weather ;-) I assume you are still VFR? If you want to go to another airfield you have to file a flightplan again contacting center assuming you don't want to this VFR?

 

Thanks!

 

Marcel

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If you are in controlled flight going into an airport without approach radar then cleared for the full approach means center radar has lined you up for the first waypoint of the published approach (which should be in your flight plan) and you are on your own to cross it and navigate the published approach. If the field is towered but without radar you would call your position in to tower (RC does not emulate that nor the use of local radio CTAF pilot to pilot communications.) I don't recall if that includes landing clearance or not. If no tower after center clears you for the full approach means that no other controlled aircraft are in the airport traffic pattern or published IAP and you "own" the vicinity and proceed to landing. If your airport conditions are VFR it is up to you to provide your own visual separation.

 

Regarding going to an alternate via a missed approach once switched to VFR to switch back to IFR you would have to file a plan. You would have to stay out of IMC until your new plan was cleared. In IMC there are features in missed approach to proceed direct to an alternate in some cases. See pages 58-59 in the manual.

 

RC4 does not have the feature for filing from the air. It does have the feature for departing airports without CD to file a plan on the ground and RC will emulate an FSS phone call to do that and return the CD. You have then ten minutes to get in the air and activate your filed plan with center. This unfortunately does not off staying in the air in your case of a missed approach.

 

Preflight on the RC controller page you can type in the ICAO code of two alternate airports to be used when change of destination is available.


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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if you were flying the tutorials, i think the answers you're looking for are in the play by play of the tutorial at the end of the manual.

 

 

jd

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Hi,

 

In fact I'm currently flying all the tutorals, today I'm goping to fly the latest one LFML-LSGG, these were the things I was still unclear with.

Thanks for your thorough explanation, the only thing I'm then still a bit confused about is the landing clearance after cleared for an approach (no radar assumed): so basically after this you would report yourself tower and get a clearance to land from them? I understand this is not modeled which is no problem to me, having a lot of fun already! Thanks again for explaining things.

 

Best, Marcel

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Hello.

 

I may be generalising from a very small simming-only experience, but...

 

When the VOR is on the airfield, the IAP charts I've seen usually have the VOR (or NDB...) as a starting-point, followed either by an outbound radial and procedure turn, or by a teardrop reversal, so you will most likely reach your last filed waypoint as a part of the approach. Where the beacon is at a distance, it seems often to be the initial fix for an approach. In either case, you will be flying over it so will get credit for it.

 

Further, if the VOR is on the field you will almost certainly be landing or taxiing close enough to it for credit in any case.

 

A terminal arrival would be different, more often using intersections, but I don't think you'd be likely to find a STAR at an uncontrolled field... The most appropriate last waypoint to your plan would be one common to both ends of the runway so that from there inwards you could be certain of joining the traffic rather than flying against it.

 

...

 

Your question about a missed approach after cancelling IFR interests me- it's not something I'd ever thought about. It may be worth posting that specific question in Hangar Chat to hear from a broad range of real-world pilots. Is it possible to choose an IAP, then cancel IFR on the ground instead of in the air?

 

Best regards,

D

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(RC does not emulate that nor the use of local radio CTAF pilot to pilot communications.)

Found this out the hard way today. I was coming in to KHQM cleared for the full approach ILS to rwy24. I broke out of the overcast at 700ft AGL to see an AI aircraft preparing to take off, not pleasant to go missed when using fscaptain and you're running against the clock. If I had some warning maybe I could have slowed my approach. This post answered my question, which was "Why no option to go to CTAF?". So basically when heading into an uncontrolled field under IMC, while shooting an approach, using radar contact, hope that there is no other traffic around. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 Is it possible to choose an IAP, then cancel IFR on the ground instead of in the air?

Yes, you would cancel your IFR flight plan on the ground with FSS. It is required. Also apparently this is not modeled. It's still far better than vanilla ATC.

 

EDIT: After some research apparently you are not required to say a word at an uncontrolled field, so my experience today could have happened in the real world it seems even with the CTAF. Remind me not to fly into uncontrolled fields under IMC in real life, sheesh! Although I would think the traffic on the ground would not have been given their clearance until I cancelled. Maybe he thought he could maintain VFR with a 700ft ceiling. Alternatively, is it possible the traffic could have received an IFR clearance before I asked for clearance for the full ILS approach, but then shouldn't I have been denied until the traffic left the area.

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At an uncontrolled airport in IMC after getting the CD the aircraft gets ten minutes to get in the air and activate the plan with center. Until then that aircraft "owns" the area. If past the time limit ATC cancels the plan and the airport is clear for arrivals. If an aircraft takes off in IMC without a clearance and plan it is indeed illegal.

 

If an arriving aircraft is cleared for the published approach, take-off clearance would not be granted at CD time until the arrival aircraft notified FSS of the completed arrival.

 

That's real world.

 

I always install a TCAS gauge if not present to show ai and their altitude difference and trends to take care of FS limitations.

 

If a tower is present but no local radar then tower delivers the CD via radio and take-off clearance if no cleared aircraft are scheduled to arrive. They also will close the arriving aircraft flight plan. Tower maintains communications with ATC.

 

Either way in such a situation FS controls ai, not RC.

 

Also, if RC sees ai patterns before a runway is assigned (about 40 nm out) it should assign the runway ai is using. Weather needs to be consistent  to provide consistent ai use.

 

If using ASE with FSX, best use the ASE option of lock destination weather. See the pinned topic.


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Support Team

 

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One last trick one might look into.  If you are a registered user if FSUIPC, you can assign a flight stick button, or button on your keyboard that will ZAP traffic that is in your way or flight path.  Rather than explain it I will defer you to the FSUIPC webpage or manual.

 

NOT too realistic, but then it's not realistic for an aircraft to depart without an IFR clearance when it is IFR.  That said, yes indeed it does happen.  So actually huppel69 had a very realistic but rare situation happen.

 

It is not too smart in RW or FSX to do instrument approaches into uncontrolled fields.  Non radio scud runners (Just below the clouds in low VFR) seem to do what they want.

 

Anway great answers here.  The FSUIPC option may work for you.


Respectfully,

 

Jet

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