If this is the most realistic P51 simulation

[jcomm 5,961]

The A2A model is very good, but unfortunately plagued, like many FSX aircraft, by the buggy round friction scalars in the sim...

 

Look for videos of cockpit footage of P51s taking off and you'll get the idea..

 

There is one thing in which I do prefer A2A's aircraft - engine response when you keep it at low revs during much time, or add power too fast, persistent damage from flight to flight... Even some aspects of the feel of the aircraft inflight feel more plausible to me in A2A's p51d.

 

I'd say they complement each other and that's why I keep both ...

[Nurmblitz 59]

I agree partly. I think its too unstable and thus a bad gun platform - which it wasn´t in reality. I behaves expectedly in take-offs, landings etc. but to fly it straight seems to be a bit of a challenge.

[tf51d 284]

Personally I like this model the best

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vapvp_YvSc&list=PL04EF86731F7D9519

 

In the sim world though I prefer the A2A over the DCS. I only tried the free version  that came with DCS World, so I don't know if the flight model is as good as the payware version, so that may be why!!

[jcomm 5,961]

I'm with you Tom.

 

Overall feel / stability, within normal flight envelope, seem more plausible to me in A2A's p51d.

 

In terms of takeoff run, the A2A model wobbles a bit too much IMO, and the DCS, with it's much more detailed ground physics, provides a more realistic experience, but once airborne, and specially immediately after takeoff, the DCS model wobbles too much  

 

In flight the A2A is more stable. Of course the prop effects aren't as perfect as in the DCS, specially when you climb steeply and start losing speed, and see no roll or yaw tendency until you reach Vmc(a). In the DCS model you experience the various prop effects way before - a limitation inherent to the core of MSFS's fliht dynamics engine...

 

The Tf51 in DCS only differs in terms of GW, because it doesn't have the additional weight of the armor and guns / ammunition...

 

During turning flight all A2A aircraft have problems with the turn coordinator, the ball running away strangely, no matter if you turn left or right. The implementation of this very basic instrument is much more realistic in DCS, and that also plays an important role in control inpus during turns between both sims...

[KingGhidorah 209]

I like the DCS plane better because you can fight with it in a combat sim.

 

One more thing that I'm going to just put out there, totally off-topic, and doesn't necessarily require a response. I have to say it feels quite strange to engage in the "normal" discussions on Avsim, like this, in light of recent news of Tom.

[jfri 42]

 

 

During turning flight all A2A aircraft have problems with the turn coordinator, the ball running away strangely, no matter if you turn left or right. The implementation of this very basic instrument is much more realistic in DCS, and that also plays an important role in control inpus during turns between both sims...

 

Is this not a problem with all planes in FSX and P3D getting this right ?

[Poppet 710]

 

 

One more thing that I'm going to just put out there, totally off-topic, and doesn't necessarily require a response. I have to say it feels quite strange to engage in the "normal" discussions on Avsim, like this, in light of recent news of Tom.

I hear ya   :mellow:

[Alan_A 1,650]

 

 

One more thing that I'm going to just put out there, totally off-topic, and doesn't necessarily require a response. I have to say it feels quite strange to engage in the "normal" discussions on Avsim, like this, in light of recent news of Tom.

 

Agree completely.  Though perhaps it's not a bad tribute to him if for us to be using Avsim the way he wanted it to be used.  

 

But yes, it does feel odd.

[KingGhidorah 209]

Jfri, I recently have been refamiliarizing myself with the DCS P-51D. What you notice about the relative lack of pull to the left on takeoff, compared to FSX, might very well be due to a better ground friction model in DCS (edit:just noticed Jcomm also mentions better ground physics model above). The real P-51 manual says that with some rudder trim the torque should be "almost unnoticeable". I can assume this means with the tail wheel in contact with the ground, and the stick aft of neutral, to lock it, all the way to lifting off. One thing is for sure though, if your tail wheel in not locked, and in contact with the ground, the pull is so extreme that you won't be able to control the thing. I hadn't flown the the plane in a long while, and my first takeoff or two, in which I forgot to have the stick back, resulted in a spectacular crash. However, with the tail wheel down in a three point attitude, and locked, it was no big deal at all.

[jcomm 5,961]

Presently I use a technique that is somehow counter-intuitive, but it's based on what I can see in the following video.  The pilot after starting the initial takeoff run releases the back pressure in the stick, and even appears to push it a bit to help lifting the tail...

 

In DCS you have to be prepared for the various prop effects coming to play under such circumstances, but it pay's to do it that way because transition into flight, and acceleration after your wheels leave the ground is easier to control. (watch starting around 00:20 )

 

Pay special attention to the soft rudder inputs, much like in DCS, as opposed to what is required in FSX, due most probably as suggested above to the poor rolling friction and overall ground handling model in that sim...

 

[tf51d 284]

 

 

Pay special attention to the soft rudder inputs, much like in DCS, as opposed to what is required in FSX, due most probably as suggested above to the poor rolling friction and overall ground handling model in that sim...

 

Note though the amount of rudder trim already inputted about 6 degree. You can see that at 0:41 of the video. Also you can tone down the level of rudder needed in FSX by reducing the P-factor and torque settings in FSX's Realism menu, if its still to high.

[jcomm 5,961]

Note though the amount of rudder trim already inputted about 6 degree. You can see that at 0:41 of the video. Also you can tone down the level of rudder needed in FSX by reducing the P-factor and torque settings in FSX's Realism menu, if its still to high.

 

True Tom, but then, as you approach Vmc(a), all of them vanish :-(  as oposed to what happens IRL...  That is intrinsic of FSX, well tied into the roots of it's FDM, as documented...

 

In DCS they are permanently adapted to each flight regime, and very plausible. Extreme inputs are dealt with in a way that not even the best add-ons for FSX can offer...

[KingGhidorah 209]

Here's a question that is not worth starting a new topic for:

 

On the 'flaps' axis for the P-51, it allows full range of movement to any position. The detents are markings only, and you can put the flaps anywhere, not just at the marked angles. Is that the way it worked for real?

[jcomm 5,961]

Here's a question that is not worth starting a new topic for:

 

On the 'flaps' axis for the P-51, it allows full range of movement to any position. The detents are markings only, and you can put the flaps anywhere, not just at the marked angles. Is that the way it worked for real?

 

Do you mean in DCS or FSX ?  I can't say right now how it is in FSX, but maybe you see the flaps moving, but they always stop at fixed detents, even if it's not very obvious.

 

In DCS, I use joystick buttons for that, so, it really stops only at the detents.

[KingGhidorah 209]

I've done a little more reading on this, and I think that the DCS implementation is correct. I had previously also used buttons only, and so assumed that the real P-51D flaps handle was gated, but I think now that it isn't.