Visual approach with some ILS/LOC OFFSET

[gura75 0]

Hi

 

  I know this one is about practicing a lot but I would like to ask for some general tips concerning approaches with some degrees offset in LOC (ILS). I  tend to land beside the runway. Should I start adjusting for the runway center line at or below minimums (A/P turned off)? Should I use ND in anyway...like trying to line up according to the airdrome extension center line?

 

  -Geir 

[Tabs 2,790]

Any offset LOC approach is always going to have minimums defined on the chart where you need to take over and align with the runway manually. You do not do autolands or go down to 100 feet or whatever with this kind of approach.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Plus,

 

the alignment for the runway centerline is supposed to be performed visually, not on instruments - you switch your view from looking at cockpit displays to looking out of the window. If you're lucky you'll spot some PAPI out there which helps you in adjusting vertically - the lateral path still is all up to you!

 

(As an exception to that rule you could look out for some lead-in-lights approaches like the one into LOWI, rwy 26 - the "dog leg" is rather small and in RW you'll be aided by those lights for the curved lateral path. Not sure, though, whether those lights are included in the default scenery already - probably not.

 

One of the toughest approaches of that kind would be the one into former Kai Tak (VHHX; not exactly an ILS offset, but an IGS rwy13). You'll need some kind of addon for that one, for sure. Recommended after the LOWI approach, only.   ;-)   )

[gura75 0]

Thanks for good tips guys. LOWI, VHHX, LYTV and MHTG are all some exciting airport where visual adjustment at some point is of importance. What I find difficult with for instance offset LDA is to decide exactly when to line up or when to start adjusting.  Is't very easy to overshoot and miss the runway. Experience and fingerspitzengefühl must be key words here. Good tips are always welcome.

 

-Geir 

[RPRIEVER 52]

I would guess that the proper point would be when you see the runway or lead-in lights. Of course, if you don't get a visual by the time you reach the DH, you would need to break off the approach. I'm not a pilot, so I might be incorrect here.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

What I find difficult with for instance offset LDA is to decide exactly when to line up or when to start adjusting.

 

You line up when you see the runway.  As soon as you see the runway, proceed visually.

 

You're making this a lot more difficult than it needs to be, especially with offset approaches like this.  Offset approaches are there to keep you from hitting mountains (or other obstacles) that you can't see when weather is poor.  If you can see the obstacles, then there's no need to follow the offset path to the runway as long as you avoid the obstacles visually.  You just line up with the runway as soon as it is practical, while avoiding the obstacles.

 

Additionally, and I say this way too much:

This whole idea that instrument approaches (and autolands) are the norm needs to go away.  Most of the time, you're going to fly a visual approach.  Unless the weather prevents you from seeing the field from a few thousand feet above the field, you're going to fly a visual approach.  That means you line up with the runway as soon as it's practical and hand fly it on in.

 

Rule of thumb:

If you can see the runway, your eyes are outside, and your hands are following the cues from the outside world, not the instruments, to put you on the runway.

 

 

 

Of course, if you don't get a visual by the time you reach the DH, you would need to break off the approach. I'm not a pilot, so I might be incorrect here.

 

Correct (well, DH/DA/MDA, but still, you got the gist of it).

[Adam T Lutley 12]

I'll echo the above sentiments. Autolands are not common in everyday commercial aircraft operations. Most approaches are hand flown below around 1500 ft AGL once the field is in sight. Once aligned with the runway, If the aircraft is properly configured and on the glideslope, there shouldn't be a need for large control wheel and throttle imputs until just before touchdown. The famous checkerboard approach into the old Kai Tak airport is defined as a visual approach. Its definitely on the "must try" list, using the PMDG Cathay Pacific 747 of course LOL!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Its definitely on the "must try" list, using the PMDG Cathay Pacific 747 of course LOL!

 

That, or if you're not looking to install extra scenery, you could always try the Rosslyn LDA at DCA, but definitely not in a 744.

 

Always love controlling DCA on VATSIM...so many people expect a straight-in approach to 19.

 

Can I autoland from the LDA???

[mgh 89]

If you are flying an ILS approach (Precision approach) then you must initiate a missed approach at DH/DA unless you have the required visual reference to continue the approach.

The required visual reference means that section of the visual aids or of the approach area which should have been in view for sufficient time for the pilot to have made an assessment of the aircraft position and rate of change of position, in relation to the desired flight path.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Thanks for good tips guys. LOWI, VHHX, LYTV and MHTG are all some exciting airport where visual adjustment at some point is of importance. What I find difficult with for instance offset LDA is to decide exactly when to line up or when to start adjusting.  Is't very easy to overshoot and miss the runway. Experience and fingerspitzengefühl must be key words here. Good tips are always welcome.

 

-Geir 

 

 

I second that 'fingerspitzengefühl' - wasn't aware we use a Norwegian word in the German language!!!   B)

[g_precentralis 191]

That, or if you're not looking to install extra scenery, you could always try the Rosslyn LDA at DCA, but definitely not in a 744.

 

Always love controlling DCA on VATSIM...so many people expect a straight-in approach to 19.

 

Can I autoland from the LDA???

Looks like fun, gonna try it :smile:

[RPRIEVER 52]

 

Always love controlling DCA on VATSIM...so many people expect a straight-in approach to 19.

 

It's a little difficult to have a straight in approach to rwy 19 at KDCA when you're dodging anti-aircraft fire from the White House during those last few miles!!!!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

It's a little difficult to have a straight in approach to rwy 19 at KDCA when you're dodging anti-aircraft fire from the White House during those last few miles!!!!

 

True!  You'd be surprised at where you'll find them, too!

This is up at the Taylor Testing complex, which is charted on the Riv Vis to Runway 19, though it doesn't have P-airspace around it (neither does the CIA, oddly).  There are several more in the area, too.  The Pentagon's aren't as obvious as they used to be.

[Sam 68]

I second that 'fingerspitzengefühl' - wasn't aware we use a Norwegian word in the German language!!!   B)

German word used in Scandinavia

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

German word used in Scandinavia

 

 

This should have been my suggestion in the first place, lol!   :lol: