Sign in to follow this  
jrhoads

Flight1 172/Default VC night lighting...

Recommended Posts

Wouldn't this be nice???http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94422.jpgI tried to upload this to the Flight1 website but wasn't able to. This kind of lighting would be the icing on the cake concerning the Flight1 172. It diffidently would set it apart from the default birds. I was actually surprised when I loaded up the plane at night only to find FS98 lighting in the VC. Since Flight1 may or may not step up to the plate on this issue, is there anyone willing to upgrade either the Flight1 Cessna 172 or the default Cessna's VC night lighting (I know there's an issue with working on payware work so I'm hoping Flight1 would do something on their end... Fingers crossed :-zhelp)??? These aircraft would really be great night trainers getting would be pilots familiar with realistic night flying before they go up in real life... For the rest it would just look cool and realistic for once concerning Flight Simulators light Cessna aircraft. The Caravan wouldn't look so bad either with this kind of update...For the record, I'm not only impressed with Flight1's offering but the default Cessna's in my book are nothing to sneeze at either. It's about time these aircraft come out of the FS98 era when it comes to night lighting. I hope there's someone out there who can look at the pic above and understand where I'm coming from....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Flight1 gave the go ahead to anyone interested...Here's an official statement from Jim Rhoads about the Flight1 172:"No plans to update any lighting.However, feel free to change it any way you want to via the aircraft cfg and fx_172vclight.fx in the "effects" folder.Regards,Jim Rhoads"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your picture does not show a 172R panel.Your picture shows an older 172 with post lights.In the future, before you light a fiery spear, you might want to do a little homework on the kind of lighting a 172R has.Jim Rhoads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Your picture does not show a 172R panel.>Your picture shows an older 172 with post lights.>In the future, before you light a fiery spear, you might want>to do a little homework on the kind of lighting a 172R has.>>Jim RhoadsWhoooo. Maybe I don't understand the entire context of this conversation, but I am quite sure that reply is a little too harsh. I think Dillon raises a good point, the lighting in some planes isn't lifelike - period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they don't do lights like this for performance reasons. I recall years ago talking to Richard Harvey from FLY! and he said there would have been significant performance penalty. But sure it would be very, very nice. I don't think there is any sim out there with instrument lights like this ...Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2, Omega 2.7.90 (4xAA 16xAF)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>I think they don't do lights like this for performance>reasons. >...>>Michael J.>Michael J. is correct. Not only is the above picture not the correct kind of lighting for the 172R, but to model it in this way can affect performance.As for me being a bit harsh, maybe... But as any developer can testify, it is a common and easy practice of some users to broadcast requests, comments,accusations or expectations that are not based on either reality or what can be done reasonably without affecting other elements of the simulator and a broad user base.If that offends, than my apologies, however, it would be appreciated as well, to research what it is you are asking for with regards to the particular model and limitations or effects to the simulator before assuming we did something wrong.We are always open to suggestions or comments, but we do things certain ways for certain reasons and it all takes into account the wide range of users. + I feel quite confident that we did do a pretty good job at representing the 172R as well as can be done in this version of the simulator.Regards,Jim Rhoads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

O.k. Jim I searched and searched and could not find a pic of the 172R at night. Sorry for using the wrong version pictured above to expand on my point. Cessna's in general are not lite up like a Christmas tree in the cockpit anyway so I don't see your point in adding realistic night lighting could affect performance of this aircraft in FS2k4.When I look add-ons like Eaglesoft's CitationX, VMAX's 747-200, and last but not least PMDG's B1900 and 737, you can't sell me on the fact that it's impossible to add realistic lighting to a small GA aircraft like the 172.I can give you examples from every other payware product on the market including your own DC9 that has no problem with decent lighting in the VC. I frankly don't believe you can't do this without a framerate hit because everyone else seems to be able to do it. I wish I could find a decent picture of the 172R at night, I just can't believe such a small aircraft would be brought down to a slide show by adding decent night lighting to the VC (I'm sorry I'm repeating myself here, did I mention Coronado's Cessna Centurion)...Another thing that's a problem is you guys are using external light switches to control internal lights. The landing lights control the gauge back lighting, why??? Once one takes off and cuts off the landing lights, the cockpit goes dark. Same goes for the NAV lights which is a requirement for night flight anywhere in the world. Turn the NAV lights on, your dome light stays on. There is a perfectly good switch Cessna provides that controls the internal lights. Why are these light's slaved to external lights??? If your going to give us such a basic trainer that everyone uses to learn how to fly, why overlook these basic things??? Why get everything right on aircraft like your Cessna 421, 441, Meridian, only to drop the ball on the very aircraft many users here actually fly??? That makes no since... I might never fly the 421 or 441 but we all have flown in some version of the 172. I would think a light Cessna would be the most complete add-on one could get for Flight Simulator (not the 737NG) seeing how everyone has access to these birds... Now it's like I'm asking too much to get some decent night lighting. I actually use the Flight1 152 to stay familiar with the cockpit layout when I can't get to the airport. The night lighting in that bird could use an update as well... I would love to have both of these birds have lighting that matched their real counterparts at night. You'd be amazed at how decent lighting would help anyone get a feel for their night training lessons before hand. Hey it works in the daytime, why not at night...I'm not trying to bash a great product here. After the patch you guys provided, this Cessna is actually wonderful. I just think someone dropped the ball on the night lighting (either that or gave up) and I'm humbly asking if you guys would at least look at it. I'm going to keep searching for a night pic of the 172R because I know for a fact we wouldn't have a framerate issue when you have companies like CaptainSim, VMAX, PMDG, and Flight1 doing it for every other aircraft.... :-roll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Jim stated in the Flight1 forum, the 172R that was modeled did not have post lighting like the picture you show. That may be an OLDER Cessna, which used a different lighting system.This may shed some "light" on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, I already stated I used the wrong picture above, sorry about that... This issue still stands though... I really need to find a pic of the 172R at night just to see how it looks (it's almost a challenge). Do you have one Steve or did you guys base your work off of daytime photos of the 172R???Once again in a nutshell I'll state that realistic night lighting in a 172's VC shouldn't bring FS2k4's framerates to a slideshow considering what the competition has done (more so what Flight1's developers/partners have accomplished in the past).Second you didn't explain the light switch problem...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>I'm not trying to bash a great product here. >Really? I guess I am confused then.I am sorry you disagree with our lighting technique, but it is obvious that I wont be able to explain it to your satisfaction.This is not a training aircraft and it is not one that was developed to train at night even though you want it to be so.The lighting will not be changed in this entertainment version of the software but you are welcome to change it anyway you like as referenced prior.Jim Rhoads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,Here is an example of the lighting...http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94509.jpgIf we painted any other lighting pattern on the main panel, if anyone altered it with their own modification, they would have to repaint the main panel graphic. Plus, they would have to modify the virtual cockpit graphics. All this is no easy task.Using backlit gauges allows for people to customize things. If we decidided to use another lighting pattern, I can imagine the complaints we would get when they could not add a simple gauge.The backlit gauges are what was used on the real plane, and done this way on purpose also because of the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys that's the 2D panel pictured above... If the VC had that kind of lighting and the light switches weren't slaved to the external switches, I don't think there would be a problem here.Just like in the daytime, at the least give us the same thing you provided in the 2D in the VC... During the day I almost can't tell when I'm in the 2D or 3D view depending on if I'm looking straight ahead. At night the difference is much more apparent (compare the two pics just provided by Jim in the is thread. The one above is the 2D and pic posted below is in the VC). :-outta "If we decidided to use another lighting pattern, I can imagine the complaints we would get when they could not add a simple gauge."Steve I can't agree here, look at what VMAX has accomplished at night and nothing changed with the textures during the day to spark complaints by anyone. The VMAX 747 does have a framerate hit because they modeled (and lite up) the whole vc/cabin but in FS2k4 it's not that big of a problem. Now if I'm understanding you correctly, you can't even add basic panel lighting to one section of the VC (the bulkhead/panel) without causing catastrophic problems all around. How can VMAX do the whole front section of an aircraft and you can't do a few lighting enhancements on the main panel in the VC????http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94536.jpgJim this has nothing to do with making this a training sim. Proper night lighting these days is standard... When you build an add-on that has the same layout as it's real counterpart, you can use the model for basic instrument training whether the designers intended that or not. No matter what anyone decides to do at this point, you would have to be the one to fix the issue with the light switches (you have the GMAX source file). As of now (only in the VC mind you) the landing light switches control the gauge back lighting. Same goes for the NAV/Dome light problem. Can you at least fix the light switches???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not understand about the light switches (go to the Flight1 forum for that), but we believe the night lighting is absolutely proper for this product (plane, audience, reusability, etc). Sorry you disagree. Are you sure the VC lighting is working correct for you? This is how it looks on my system.Cessna 172R Virtual Cockpit Lighting...http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94541.jpgAnyway, everyone has stated their thoughts on this. I do not know if much more needs to be said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve that pic looks fine, now turn off the landing lights and show me what you get (I know, your gauge back lighting would turn off with the landing lights. Now you have a totally dark cockpit)... In this pic your flying at night with no NAV lights on externally. If you had the NAV light switches on the Dome light would be on in the VC, that's a major problem...Can you guys at least fix the light switches???I'm still looking for a night pic of the 172R for my own reference..."I can imagine the complaints we would get when they could not add a simple gauge."Steve adding a gauge in the VC at this point would still be a problem for anyone because no matter what, whoever added the gauge would have to know how to add their own gauge back lighting. Either that or have a dark gauge at night....:-hmmm You adding extra light or not would not solve this problem...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We modeled the 172R's backlit gauges. Dillon wants post lights instead. The bitmaps for the VC dash are in the panel folder. The alpha maps are in the texture folder. Knock yourself out. Anyone can modify this panel anyway they want. The complaint in the past has ALWAYS been that people can't add their custom gauges, radios, garmin, radar or whatever without black spots where the original gauges were located at night. This method allows anyone with a paint program to modify the panel graphics to their heart's content, EVEN including backlit dummy gauges that are only painted on.The gauge refresh rate is better this way. The resolution is very crisp. Anyone who has ever struggled with placing gauges in a VC will be ecstatic when they open the VC in FS Panel Studio and see how easy it is to place gauges. Post lights, flood lighting or ANY pattern of lighting can be added by simply working with the alpha bitmaps in the texture folder. There is only one downside at the moment. The VC gauge lighting is linked to the landing light, which I didn't catch until after release. There may be a workaround for that but... I am NOT going back to the old method of backlighting. I've used this method for many years for VC panel development and removed all instances prior to release. I've never used it for backlighting until the 172R. The lighting is for a 172R, hence, no post lights and I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater because of one possibly fixable niggle with the landing light. The pluses far outweight the negatives over the old method. The lighting never changes in a 2D panel no matter which way the plane is facing. The light changes dynamically for a VC depending on where the light source is. Shown is one at night at 120 degrees and one at 300 degrees. I fail to see where you see such a discrepency between the 172R 2D panel lighting and VC panel lighting, unless it's just for the sake of arguing.I'm not adding post lights. There are no post lights. If you want post lights, fire up your favorite paint program and have at it.Roger DialFlight One Software

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger I don't want post lights either and I'm perfectly fine with adding my own lighting once I find a picture for reference of the 172R at night.What about the light switch problem??? A this point that's all I'm asking get fixed... I can't fix that one myself...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I am not sure what part of this conversation you dont understand Dillon. We did this a certain way to accomodate the larger concerns to us which were support of 3rd party backlighting on the gauges.We are not changing this...Ok let me check something.... (kick kick kick)Yep. It's official the horse really is dead. I'm not kicking it anymore.No more from me.Jim Rhoads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this