VOR to VOR navigation question

[VeryBumpy 272]

When piloting a steam gauge plane, what is the proper procedure to follow when the plan has the next VOR further than the plane's (or beacon's) ability to be mutually detected.

 

I'm guessing you are simply suppose to follow a direct heading towards that next VOR until the signal comes within range?

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

Pretty much, although you would look for other navaids for a crosscheck..

 

NDB beacons can be helpful , since they often have a longer range.

[meshman 109]

Not knowing the VORs and distance, but are you able to track based upon the VOR you're leaving?

[Guest]

Not knowing the VORs and distance, but are you able to track based upon the VOR you're leaving?

 

My thought exactly. Don't only look at the VOR you are going to but also use the VOR you are leaving! If BOTH VORs are out of range, you indeed just have to maintain a certain heading until you get into contact with the VOR.

[FSMP 95]

You wish you had a GPS !!  :dance:

 

Note:  While both your departing VOR  and destination VOR  might be out of range,  so you have to fly by heading (corrected for wind  etc),   there might well be other VORS  and NDB  that are within range, but not on your direct path,   that you can use to provide a Cross on your current position, to ensure you are still on the correct TRACK, between your two "out of range" VORs.

 

It might also be a possibility to increase altitude, which should increase the range that you can receive your desired VOR's signals.

 

( which is what   "Bert Pieke"  said in an earlier post,  that I failed to read before replying)

[Tabs 2,790]

Enroute charts often contain a little symbol along airways that looks like this:

 

 

That's called a VOR changeover point and it marks the spot where you should go from tracking outbound on the previous VOR on the airway to tracking inbound on the next one. Your plane should have two VOR receivers and DMEs, so you leave VOR1 tuned to the previous station and VOR2 on the upcoming one. In this case as soon as the previous one reads 92 DME and the upcoming one reads 162 on this course, you switch VOR1 over to the upcoming one and use it as the primary data source.

[stans 705]

You wish you had a GPS !!  :dance:

 

Note:  While both your departing VOR  and destination VOR  might be out of range,  so you have to fly by heading (corrected for wind  etc),   there might well be other VORS  and NDB  that are within range, but not on your direct path,   that you can use to provide a Cross on your current position, to ensure you are still on the correct TRACK, between your two "out of range" VORs.

 

It might also be a possibility to increase altitude, which should increase the range that you can receive your desired VOR's signals.

 

( which is what   "Bert Pieke"  said in an earlier post,  that I failed to read before replying)

 

Outstanding response, especially the part about wishing for a GPS! :good:

[fppilot 4,389]

Enroute charts often contain a little symbol along airways that looks like this:

 

 

 

That's called a VOR changeover point and it marks the spot where you should go from tracking outbound on the previous VOR on the airway to tracking inbound on the next one. Your plane should have two VOR receivers and DMEs, so you leave VOR1 tuned to the previous station and VOR2 on the upcoming one. In this case as soon as the previous one reads 92 DME and the upcoming one reads 162 on this course, you switch VOR1 over to the upcoming one and use it as the primary data source.

 

Great answer.  Note that Ryan's example depicts a J route from a high altitude enroute chart for flying typically 18,000 and above.  The VOR to VOR distance in that example is 254 NM.  Flying that J route assumes adequate altitude for receiving the VORs at those distances.  For instrument navigation at lower altitudes the distances between VOR's on low enroute V airways is in all but a small number of instances 120 NM or less, and in the vast majority of cases less than 100 NM.  The number of cross over points on V routes is also relatively small.  This morning I am on charts L27 and L28 and with a cursory scan of both charts only located four or five V route segments with cross over points depicted.  

 

Those V route segments that are at the long end of the scale, and with cross over points are mostly in the western USA in areas where terrain as one example is a factor in reception distance.

[Brett_Henderson 5]

Planning is the key..
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'High Altitude' VORs have ranges between 150-200nm.

'Low Altitude' VORs ~50nm

'Terminal' VORs ~25nm
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Also, keep in mind that VOR navigation need not be a direct course twixt two VORs.. I.E.. outbound on a radial until intersecting the next VOR radial (maybe terminal or low-altitude VOR)..
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IOW... High-Altitude VORs can give you 300-400nm legs.. and if for some reason you need to plan for longer legs (airspace or mountain avoidance.. or a more direct course) .. you just need to take advantage of all your tools..
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Attached is an example: green course, traveling from right-to-left, avoiding airspace, arriving at an airport with a terminal VOR (very short range)..
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-Fly dired to VOR(2), until intersecting a radial from VOR(1)
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-turn on-course using a couple of DME/radial references from VOR(2)
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-when in range of NDB(pink) fly roughly to/from it (keeps you clear of airspace).. then maintain a relatively accurate course by radial intertsestions (VOR(3)(4)) .. one should do it, but plan for more per winds aloft..
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Once in range of terminal VOR.. you're home-free

Edit: Having trouble with image upload.. working on it.. (got it, using my laptop)

[LAdamson 240]

IOW... High-Altitude VORs can give you 300-400nm legs.. and if for some reason you need to plan for longer legs (airspace or mountain avoidance.. or a more direct course) .. you just need to take advantage of all your tools..

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Brett, Your name came to mind, when I was reading this thread.....

 

L.Adamson -- the GPS advocate

[Brett_Henderson 5]

 

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Brett, Your name came to mind, when I was reading this thread.....

 

L.Adamson -- the GPS advocate

 

 

Yeah.. your name too

 

Now.. how the heck do I attach an image ?

 

EDIT: Got it to work using my laptop,, and we're all GPS advocates

[VeryBumpy 272]

Planning is the key.. then maintain a relatively accurate course by radial intertsestions (VOR(3)(4)) ..

 

I assume you need 2 independent HSI's for this but I still don't understand how you can 'aim' for the 3 4 intersection?

 

How can I do what you suggest (3 4 intersection aiming) on this plane? (CS727)

[machine2035 176]

 

I assume you need 2 independent HSI's for this but I still don't understand how you can 'aim' for the 3 4 intersection?

 

How can I do what you suggest (3 4 intersection aiming) on this plane? (CS727)

You can use 1 HSI and 1 RMI (RMI being the guage just left of the HSI). Flick the switch to either ADF/VOR (depending on what you want to it to point to) and you're set to navigate via 2 different navaids.

[ryanbatc 12,940]

RMI - to the left of your HSI. It will point directly to the VOR station.

[VeryBumpy 272]

You can use 1 HSI and 1 RMI (RMI being the guage just left of the HSI). Flick the switch to either ADF/VOR (depending on what you want to it to point to) and you're set to navigate via 2 different navaids.

I get that part, you can easily fly between the 2 VORs watching the needles. But how do you pinpoint fly to the exact specific intersection location as Brett suggests.  For example, the plan intersection point could be  way north 10 miles from VOR3 and 90 from VOR4, or way south 90 miles from VOR3 and 10 miles from VOR4.