>Guys, you really should know that the DNA drivers are>seriously nothing more than the Omega's with someone else's>moniker slapped on them. Interesting Ryan. So is DNA involved in some sort of plagiarism here? I thought they were a reputable place. I kind of prefer their method of packaging their driver - it comes in a single piece rather than 3 (RadLinker, etc.).Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Thank you for that...very good to know. It brings me back to my original post, that all this reporting on your sim flying better if doing this or that is really subjective.In the end I guess it's matter of "don't believe everything that people write"...

Well I'm sorry if my reply came out a bit harsh. It's just that there's no way those improvement could be a direct result of installing the DNA driver, especially if what Ryan is saying (about the DNA drivers being Omega's drivers repackaged) is true. Now I'm not saying there wasn't an improvement in your case, but it has to be caused by something else - most likely something was amiss and that something was purged/reset when the new driver was installed. So, for most people, installing the DNA/Omega or other hacked drivers will not double the framerate."To the person who called these drivers the work of a teenage "hack.""That would be me :)If what you're saying about the DNA drivers is true, then I suppose my assumption was correct regarding the author of those. Omega may be the exception. I remember using some of "his" drivers for my Voodoo5 toward the end of the 3dfx era so he has certainly been around for a while. The addition settings he provides over the default are usually things that ATI itentionally left out because the average user doesn't need them and they could cause lots of support calls from people who changed those settings without knowing what they do. So, if you want control over the driver and know what the extra settings do they are probably a better choice but at the core, it's just the normal Catalyst driver with a different control panel and mixed 'n matched dll files that worked best on *his* system and a small number of test systems (that don't even begin to approach the scale of ATI's own beta testing team and external beta testers). The fact that ATI is switching to a Creative-style bloated control "center" (what's wrong with calling it "panel"?) may be reason enough to switch to the Omegas though :)

AND ME TOO!!! Count me in appreciation for your contribution for whatever it may be worth.Happy flying:RTH

By no means was it "Holy Grail" for my system, but it did improve it. Oh well, go figure.

To take a quote from "The King of New York": "Everytime I try to get out, they pull me back in!""So, for most people, installing the DNA/Omega or other hacked drivers will not double the framerate." - What I said was I gained more fluidity AND more framerates, never anything about doubling anything..."but it has to be caused by something else - most likely something was amiss and that something was purged/reset when the new driver was installed."Sir, I am probably one of the most knowlegeable people when it comes to all thing computer on this forum and I can assure you that my rig is ALWAYS in pristine condition...did I mention ALWAYS? I have been building computers since 1992, there is no purging or resetting needed because I start with a totally purged driver base each time I load new drivers on the system.But the proof is in the pudding:With the lastest Cat, DNA and Omega drivers in the same high density scenario the DNA drivers give no less than 3-5fps over and above the others, more crisp graphics AND more fluidity.My POINT WAS, that in our hobby where every frame rate counts, the TWEAK produced measureable results; no more no less.But I also noticed that you are ready to believe that DNA and Omega drivers are exactly the same, but you are not ready to believe that they can provide a performance gain in the right circumstance without doing ANY research on your own? I don't get that at all, especially, while they are both HACKED drivers by talented individuals (talents that YOU nor I possess or should belittle), any power user or overclocker or person seeking to take their rig to the edge with a Radeon swears by them.You will notice that the few people who at least TRIED before denouncing did get a performance difference on the plus side. And that is what our hobby and these forums are about.*sigh*, swiching frequencies, good-day.Mike T.

"This would have the effect of purging a maladjusted FS9 setup and could explain any performance improvement noticed."No, the reason MSFS started up in 800x600 is because it construed it as new drivers. MSFS has nothing to do with purging anything from your system, it merely utilizes what you put on it, which is in this case DNA DRIVERS. It is improved because of the new drivers...no more no less, and you can claim it to be system purging, bolemia or anorexia. Don't misrepresent the case with inaccurate technical information, because in this case, may I respectfully point out that you are VERY, VERY wrong.SO! what you are saying is that there WAS a framerate increase, no matter how small. And do you REALLY believe just because ATI released the drivers that no one on earth has the skill to improve on them unless they work for ATI? If that were the case then why would ATI themselves release updated drivers regularly and claim improvement if they couldn't be improved upon? And why do thousands of HARD CORE users use Omega or DNA drivers and not even LOOK at the out-of-the-box Catalyst drivers?Come on, you can admit it? You like what that teenager sitting at home did for your system don't you? :-lolMike T.

>You will notice that the few people who at least TRIED before denouncing itMike, I immediately tried it, I did not denounce anything. I try practically everything that gets reported on those forums. But I did not get any NOTICABLE performance gain. If there is a gain, I just can't see it with my imperfect eyes (nor my fps counter can register). The fact is that this forum is full of magic "potions" that are supposed to give you a boost and I am still waiting for this day when I will scream "WOW, what a great tweak". You can still find in archives this long thread that someone supposedly discovered that when they compressed FS9 folder their FS9 experience got completely transformed - 30% (or even 50%) higher fps, sharper textures, etc. It is actually pretty unbelieveable what some people claimed this tweak did for them. In fact, for me, the only benefit I can see from compressing the FS9 folder is that all of a sudden I got extra HD space. So yes, though I will try anything I don't expect much from any such revelations, but I *always* learn something new so it is not a complete waste of time. Thanks to your post for example I learned about DNA.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Guys, here is the page from the DNA vs. Omega investigation done by Driverheaven with the first of the proof that "Killersneak", maker of the DNAs, is ripping off Omega -http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/omegadna/16ethics.htmThis sparked a forum "hunt" for more proof and several astute users realized that his releases *always* come after Omega's and a few other big time tipoffs in the driver .inf file itself.Quote from Terry Makedon, the lead programmer on the ATI Catalyst development team:"If people did not want to use CATALYST for some reason then my recommended modified "driver" set would be Omega's. He is working with ATI and is also a member of the CATALYST beta program, and I personally find him very professional. Thus as an end user I would feel a bit better about Omega's credentials."

>Interesting Ryan. So is DNA involved in some sort of>plagiarism here? I thought they were a reputable place. I kind>of prefer their method of packaging their driver - it comes in>a single piece rather than 3 (RadLinker, etc.).Actually, yeah the other thing DNA had done (he may have stopped now though) was stripping the ATI licensing agreement from the drivers, which is illegal. Omega's are the only 3rd party tweaked drivers that are officially sanctioned by the ATI team. Please note too, Omega is not actually hacking the driver code or anything like that - they're the same core drivers as the Catalysts with registry/inf tweaks added plus the inclusion of utiilites like Radlinker to replace the bloated ATI Catalyst Control Center.Also, Omega's drivers have been a single install file for several versions now - just as easy, if not easier, to install than the offical drivers...

Hi Mike,and thx for suggestion.I tried a fake DNA installation and noticed i had to anwer to several questions and choose different options.... i'm lost!Now i ask which is the correct install procedure for my 9800XT?Furter, which settings in 3D tab of advanced display properties?Thanks for helpingLuigi ;-)

I got those drivers some days ago and indeed performance improved, but much more improved later. I am not sure what was, if the installation of XP Service Pack2 or the performance friendly clouds that I installed the same day but my fps went 10 upper.PMDG and RFP at an avg of 20/25 at the airports, 30 most of the time when flying (I have locked at 30) and in areas full of clouds again at 20/25.I have a regular system, P4 2.8, 768 Mb Ram and Ati Radeon 9600 Pro. I was thinking about getting a P4 3.4 and another 256 Ram but after this improvement I can wait a while.Leo

Thanks for the link. That forum thread was funny - The "author" of the DNA drivers kept calling them "his" drivers then Catalyst Maker and him had the funniest flamewar I've seen in a while which ended with KillerSneak being banned from Rage3D. Whether the DNA drivers are copies of the Omega's or not, everyone should avoid KillerSneak and "his" DNA drivers :-lol At least Omega seems sensible and humble enough for me to trust "his" drivers won't harm my computer...As for "hacked" drivers in general, I really think Catalyst Maker summed it up nicely:"To correct everyone there is only one option of drivers not three. They are called CATALYST. PeriodThe other two options are modification to ATI developed and tested drivers. ATI has hundreds of software engineers, thousands of test machines, and a little something called the source code."

Hi Ryan,You mention the ability to set 3D settings per application, where do you set this?As someone who has just moved over to a 9800Pro and the Omega drivers i may have got something wrong as I can't spot anywhere to set 3D per application.TIA

Wow...good links. I wouldn't install those DNA before, now I'm sure of it. It's not because they may harm my system, it's more the principel of that guy claiming they are his own without giving credit to Omega, plus his attitude is incredible. That's just wrong...I urge everyone to NOT INSTALL DNA DRIVERS.