Arghh... I think we are having a communication breakdown. Why Golf? I need NOVEMBER !!! Every U.S. registered aircraft begins with November. See the screenshot:

 

RC4.jpg

 

November is selected in the type field. Only 12345 is in the ID field (no N).

If MCE specifies November as General Aviation, I can use:

November One Two Three Four FIve

November Three Four Five

One Two Three Four Five

Three Four Five

etc.

 

No need to use Golf....

 

 

Aha, I didn't know you could edit the list. When I tried to type anything in the box where you put "n" in, it seemed locked.

 

If editing is possible, then it's sorted.

 

You type the exact aircraft type you want in the left box "Douglas", "Boeing" "pitts" or whatever, and the entire registration number (including November) in the right box. That way, no major changes to the code is required other than consider the aircraft types you mentioned as GA.

 

Provided you use the full reg ID in your transmission "November one two three four five", speaking the aircaft_type at the begining is optional.

 

Aircraft_type is required if you speak the short form "aircraft_type three four five".

 

That explains why FO says "n" (letter n and not November). Because the left box content is seen as aircraft_type.

 

I think we are in synch now.

 

Edit: I may have misunderstood what RC4 customisation is allowed. Can't type "November" or anything via the UI. Could you explain how you do that? Thanks

Edit: I may have misunderstood what RC4 customisation is allowed. Can't type "November" or anything via the UI. Could you explain how you do that? Thanks

I don't think the list is editable. However, every ICAO phonetic letter is included in the Airline or Company Name dropdown menu. Notice that I selected November there and it populated "n" in the first callsign box. The second box is editable which allows you to enter your registration.

 

Basically, using the letters is a workaround when the type aircraft your flying is not in the list provided by Radar Contact. In essence, the first letter of your aircraft's registration number becomes the type.

 

Example: Say my airplane is a Cirrus SR22 with registration N356FG. Selecting November in the drop-down and typing 356FG in the editable field makes my RC callsign November Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf. Acceptable callsigns would then be:

November Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf

November Six Foxtrot Golf

Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf

Six Foxtrot Golf

 

By using November as the "type" I could not say Cirrus (not in the list anyway) or any other type - but that's OK because in the U.S., you normally state your callsign using either your aircraft model or November (but not both). As a controller, I would expect to hear Cirrus 356 Foxtrot Golf or November 356 Foxtrot Golf. If I heard someone check on with Cirrus November 356 Foxtrot Golf, I would know to watch them extra hard :-)

I don't think the list is editable. However, every ICAO phonetic letter is included in the Airline or Company Name dropdown menu. Notice that I selected November there and it populated "n" in the first callsign box. The second box is editable which allows you to enter your registration.

 

Basically, using the letters is a workaround when the type aircraft your flying is not in the list provided by Radar Contact. In essence, the first letter of your aircraft's registration number becomes the type.

 

Example: Say my airplane is a Cirrus SR22 with registration N356FG. Selecting November in the drop-down and typing 356FG in the editable field makes my RC callsign November Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf. Acceptable callsigns would then be:

November Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf

November Six Foxtrot Golf

Three Five Six Foxtrot Golf

Six Foxtrot Golf

 

By using November as the "type" I could not say Cirrus (not in the list anyway) or any other type - but that's OK because in the U.S., you normally state your callsign using either your aircraft model or November (but not both). As a controller, I would expect to hear Cirrus 356 Foxtrot Golf or November 356 Foxtrot Golf. If I heard someone check on with Cirrus November 356 Foxtrot Golf, I would know to watch them extra hard :-)

 

Thanks for explaining.

 

I think there is a workaround that will not involve any changes to the code.

 

You can use the November as show in the screenshot above, and provided you only use numbers in the right box "12345", will edit the speech grammar optimised for airliners to accept November as the type followed by "12345" which will be seen as an airliner flight number. That should work.

 

Will send you the revised grammar file via e-mail tonight

Radar Contact also provides a BLANK selection in the Airline or Company Name drop-down menu. Selecting it leaves the first callsign field empty and you can then enter the full registration in the edit box using the preceding N. This is basically another way of accomplishing the same thing. Not sure if this would be easier or harder to implement in MCE.

 

If MCE could recognize all of the phoenetic letters in the Airline or Company list (all 26 of them are in there), one could use this workaround for any country's registration. Say your airplane is an Islander with registration G-BNTP. Since "Islander" is not a type available from RC, the wrokaround is to select Golf in the Airline or Company list box and enter BNTP in the editable field.

 

It's not perfect, but it would be better becuase MCE refeuses to recognize any of these callsigns right now unless you enter a bogus type (and if I'm flying around in an Islander, I don't want to be called Cessna).

You can use the November as show in the screenshot above, and provided you only use numbers in the right box "12345", will edit the speech grammar optimised for airliners to accept November as the type followed by "12345" which will be seen as an airliner flight number. That should work.

Yes !!! I think we're finally on the same page. One concern... and you would know more about it than me... is that airline callsigns typically only use numbers while GA registrations are usually a mix of numbers and letters. MCE may already be expecting both; but thought I would bring it up.

If MCE could recognize all of the phoenetic letters in the Airline or Company list (all 26 of them are in there), one could use this workaround for any country's registration. Say your airplane is an Islander with registration G-BNTP. Since "Islander" is not a type available from RC, the wrokaround is to select Golf in the Airline or Company list box and enter BNTP in the editable field.

 

It's not perfect, but it would be better becuase MCE refeuses to recognize any of these callsigns right now unless you enter a bogus type (and if I'm flying around in an Islander, I don't want to be called Cessna).

 

Recognising NATO alphabet isn't the issue.

In the past tried to handle all kind of callsigns using a single grammar that expects anything from potentially 1000+ airline names to GA aircraft. It didn't work well.

 

What we now have is one grammar to handle Airline_name + 1 to 4 digits + (optional 1 letter) + optional "heavy"

 

If the current aircraft is seen as an airliner it would be subject to that speech rule

 

If it's seen as GA aircraft, then it's no problem having combinations of letters and numbers because the ad-hoc grammar expects that.

 

The problem is deciding where the aircraft fits. The blank aircraft type, unless it's a specific one space char or something like that wouldn't be workable, because then, all aircraft would be seen as GA.

 

Anyway, will see how things go after you receive the updated grammar.

What we now have is one grammar to handle Airline_name + 1 to 4 digits + (optional 1 letter) + optional "heavy"

 

If the current aircraft is seen as an airliner it would be subject to that speech rule

Yes. Based on that rule, I'm thinking the November type (or any other phonetic letter you decide to implement) would need to use the GA grammar. U.S. registrations can have up to 2 letters at the end and many other countries use letters exclusively.

 

Other than the way callsigns are interpreted, are there any other differences between the airline and GA grammars?

 

Edit: I agree that the blank type would probably cause problems

 

 

Other than the way callsigns are interpreted, are there any other differences between the airline and GA grammars?

 

No.

Just wanted to follow up to say that the new grammar file works like a dream !!! I was using N1267A as the callsign and got VERY good recognition. I still have some questions on a few things... but will organize my thoughts and post later in a different thread. Mainly just wanted to thank you again for working with me on this issue... awesome support !!!

Just wanted to follow up to say that the new grammar file works like a dream !!! I was using N1267A as the callsign and got VERY good recognition. I still have some questions on a few things... but will organize my thoughts and post later in a different thread. Mainly just wanted to thank you again for working with me on this issue... awesome support !!!

 

You're welcome.

 

And thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure it will benefit others.

 

We thought you had to use one of the RC4 built-in GA aircraft types or airliners. Now this is a good workaround.

This is very interesting. I have always struggled with GA flights and announcements at uncontrolled airports.  My airliner flights have never been a problem.

After reading this post, I tried varying my calls again, and simply leaving out the word 'Cessna', gave me an instant positive result.

 

So instead of

'Traffic, Cessna GBAFM, taxiing to runway 33' or 'Traffic, Cessna AFM taking off runway 33 departing to the East',

which usually(always?) elicit no response whatsoever,

I tried

'Traffic, GBAFM, taxiing to runway 33' and 'Traffic GAFM taking off runway 33 departing to the East',

and my response is now 100%.

 

Further experimentation shows that I am getting NO recognition of the word 'Cessna'.

 

I have the latest version of MCE - so does this contain the above grammar file you have given to Maddog?

 

Anyway, I thought I would just report this as I'm now very pleased to be getting such high recognition just by leaving out the word Cessna.

 

Keith

 

 

so does this contain the above grammar file you have given to Maddog?

 

Not yet, but it will be in the next update coming out within a week.

 

You could get it via e-mail though.

 

Cessna being a word that ends with "ah" sounds more Italian than English. Probably why it doesn't go as well as the others.

Understood thanks, I'm happy to wait for the update, now that I have discovered what works it is giving me pretty much 100% recognition

Gerald,

 

Will the new version implement the phoentic letter "types" using the GA grammar or just assign November to the airline grammar like in the file you sent me? While I'd like to see all the letters assigned to GA, just be careful with Delta... it can be both.

Gerald,

 

Will the new version implement the phoentic letter "types" using the GA grammar or just assign November to the airline grammar like in the file you sent me? While I'd like to see all the letters assigned to GA, just be careful with Delta... it can be both.

 

That's right, this is the issue.

 

Once you start adding all the letters, suddenly the grammar will be more like the one for GA aircraft, and airliners recognition will suffer as a result.

The file (the amended one we sent you) will stay the same for now. Besides don't know yet the impact the changes will cause to other users. With just "November" added, haven't seen adverse effects so far.

Understood... it would be nice to associate November with GA at some point though. That way we can use two phonetic letters at the end instead of just one.