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peterdrowan

Flying into EGGD Bristol Airport - How to set up FMC

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THis is more one for the real pilots amongst you.  All the STARS into EGGD come to a waypoint 3000' directly above the Airport runway waypoint BRI and then loop away and back to land. I fly into EGGD from Edinburgh all the time as a passenger and this just never happens either you go straight into 27 if you are coming from the East or if coming from the west for 27 you come over Brecon  go due East North of bristol turn 90 degrees right go a few miles and then 90 degrees right again to land on 27 in other words a circuit but there is no STAR for either of these approaches and nothing in the STAR or Airport documentation which is the real NATS documentation mentions any approaches like these.  If I try and set up what the planes actually do there are no way points for the 2 right angle turns.   Two questions - is it usual for Airplanes to ignore the STARS like they all seem to do and essentially manually fly in  and also how do I set up the waypoints for the turns in the FMC so that I am coming in a 5 mile North of the Airport  going east til 5 miles past the airport, turning south and then turning west on heading 270 and then landing.  How would I set up such an approach with the FMC  There are no waypoints suitable though there are 2 waypoints lined up with the runway though these are not mentioned on the NATS runway 27 Instrument Approach charts. I tried to remove some waypoints for the BRIB star that crosses over Brecon but I could only remove it entirely or leave it as it is.    I am just surprised that all the flights seem to not use the STARS or deviate from them.

 

Peter Rowan

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The charts show the full procedural approach. You don't have to fly the whole thing if you're vectored to the FAF by ATC.

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Hey Pete, have you ever listened to bristol ATC?...from what i can tell when im there, is that they get vectored at some point on the STAR to fly to Hicksgate Round about in Brislington. When they are over head HGR they report to ATC and then they get another vector to Chew Vally Lake.They get told to report abeam CVL, then asked to report when fully established on the ILS.

 

Chew vally lake is there with default scenery but HicksGate Roundabout is not.

 

I have the same peve as you do as i fly into bristol (sim) all the time as its my local airport, 10 mins away :). i fly heading select and make my own pattern.

 

Ofcourse to do this useing the FMC, you'll need to manually add waypionts by place-bearing-distance, from 'BRI' ( thats an NDB )

 

Ex: BRI050/10...that will make a waypiont on the 050 radial, 10 miles away  (See on ND) ...keep making them until your happy with the route  then connect it all up.

 

...thats my plan of attack anyway :) just my 2 cents.

 

If only real T7 landed in bristol :(

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You'll have to fine tune it but something like this:

 

y8gi.jpg

 

bmy9.jpg

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I am not familiar with flying into that airport, but for example my approach to the 8's at EDDP would not select a star at all. I would select runway 08R/L then the transition and hit execute. That would bring me directly from my last planned waypoint to the approach point nearby the localiser and then on the glide path.

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If you are online (VATSIM) and Bristol approach/London Centre is online you will probably get vectors.

I'v seen Bristol online on VATSIM several times a week lately.

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Use/get vectors if you use/have some form of ATC, Bristol always vector. If flying yourself with no form of ATC position yourself on a 30 deg closing/intercepting ILS heading to intecept the localiser (ext rwy cent line) at 10-15 nm at 3,000ft QNH, make sure your level to intercept the glide slope.

 

To many people expect to use STARS 100% of the time when in real life vectors are used most of the time.

 

Oh yea and ... Make sure when your 4 DME rwy 27 your not too low cuz u'll be over my house!! LOL.

 

Enjoy

 

Rich

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It is exactly as Spook says. Brislington and then turn at chew valley lake.  I shall try spook's approach using BRI09.   I thought STARS were sacrosanct. Obviously not.  Thanks for the replies.

 

Regards

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I thought STARS were sacrosanct.

 

haha - definitely not.

 

STARs are created to help reduce frequency congestion and workload of the controller and pilot.  That's all.  ATC must override them at any time separation would be compromised   Furthermore, they often ("often" being subject to the facility's SOP and the latitude given therein) override them at any time there would be an operational advantage.  Looking at EGGD's situation, I can't figure out why the STAR dumps off immediately over the airport using my US-side logic.  Euro-side logic, though, I think it's used for sequencing to a common point.  The common point being 3000', it keeps the inbound traffic above the altitudes likely used for the various approaches in case holding is being utilized.

 

If the approaches do not have an initial approach fix from that common point (whatever that fix you mentioned is "directly above the airport"), then you're going to get vectors from that point to a fix on the approach.  You would not enter these into the LEGS page.  Even if I knew ATC was going to give me a vector at a certain point, entering it on the legs page will result in a track of that degree, not a heading of that degree.  If all of the others are heading 220, and you're tracking 220, you're going to be out of position relative to the rest of the group.  This can place you in conflict with other arrival streams (to the same or a different airport).

 

The reason for it over here in the US is for reasons of proximity to other airports or terrain (in most cases).  Look at the LENDY arrival into JFK.  You're still at FL190 about 20nm west of the airport to keep you above the arrivals and departures of EWR and LGA (TEB and HPN, too).  After the STAR ends at LGA, the rest of it is all vectors.

 

As mentioned earlier:

Vectors? Heading select.

 

The magenta line is not everything.

 

 

 


THis is more one for the real pilots amongst you.

 

Also, for what it's worth, using the "real pilots" qualifier can potentially filter out a lot of valuable knowledge.  Most of what I just brought up, I learned from my work in air traffic management (which really wouldn't even qualify for "real controllers" either).  There's also a few guys in here with a ton of knowledge about the aircraft because they're maintenance workers.

 

Pilots are not always the pinnacle of knowledge.

...and I say that as a pilot myself.

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Hi Peter,

 

I fly EasyJet into EGGD (from EGNT) every week, and as you say, they are always vectored off, usually pretty directly towards a downwind, about 15 miles north of the field.

 

The STAR is just there as a 'default' position that says "if you're not told otherwise, you're going overhead the field", although it almost never happens that this occurs.

 

Almost the same happens "up the road" at EGNT;   most flight plans will have a clearance limit of NEW VOR, which again, is on the field, but they too get either easterly or westerly vectors, at around 10-20 miles out.

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