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aldox62

LOC and APP do not "always" arm when pressing the buttons

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Hi all,

 

on some flights but not on a regular basis I noticed a behavior that appears really odd to me: LOC (and also APP) modes do not arm as expected when the buttons are pressed, i.e. I see no green light on the button and no FMA indication that the modes are armed 

 

Sometimes, to fix the issue I try disabiling and then re-enabiling the AP. After this off-on sequence the buttons do get their green bar and the modes are reported as armed in the FMA as expected.

 

Yesterday, however, this manoeuvre failed at the end of an excellent EGLL-LLBG/RWY08 flight and I had to land in manual mode as I found no way to get LOC and APP armed at the end of the STAR to LLBG RWY08.

 

Also tried erasing-reentering the ILS/Course data in the NAV RAD page to no success.

 

Usually I arm LOC when I get aligned to the runway I want to land to and see the diamonds getting live, I arm APP when LOC is engaged, In any case, I'm at least flaps 5 with reducing speed.

 

Any ideas about what could be the reason for these issues ?

 

Thanks a lot in advance

 

Aldo

 

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Is the heading bug on mcp set to your current heading? I haven't flown the 777 lately but I know the NGX won't arm the LOC if the hdg on the mcp isn't set correctly

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Is the heading bug on mcp set to your current heading? I haven't flown the 777 lately but I know the NGX won't arm the LOC if the hdg on the mcp isn't set correctly

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

That would be the course setting, not heading, which the 777 doesn't have anyway.

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Below my answers to the questions asked above:

 

- ILS is in range, tuned (i mean it is set either automatically or even manually by re entering freq/course pair)

 

- heading bug set to ILS course as in freq/course pair entered in nav radio page

 

I think I am OK as sometimes it is enough to disable - reenable AP to have at the next trial the buttons properly arm the modes. The sequence is LOC/fail-AP OFF-AP ON- LOC/ARM OK

 

 

Regards,

 

Aldo

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Usually the Loc is armed before you line up with the runway or on final approach.  Sounds like you are trying to arm it too late.  The idea is to arm the localizer so that it will pick up the ILS and turn the aircraft onto final approach if on A/P.  Once the aircraft is starting to line up or on the final turn to runway heading, check the PFD and make sure you are below the glideslope, then press App.  The Loc is engaged first and then as stated when you are turning onto the approach, the App is engaged.

 

Rob

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Have you installed add-on scenery? I recently had a similar problem while landing at Frankfurt (EDDF). I couldn't seem to pick up the localizer and glideslope for the newest rwy, 25R. I ended up doing a full visual approach. This was with the latest version of Mega airport X.

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Have you installed add-on scenery? I recently had a similar problem while landing at Frankfurt (EDDF). I couldn't seem to pick up the localizer and glideslope for the newest rwy, 25R. I ended up doing a full visual approach. This was with the latest version of Mega airport X.

 

 

With or without the latest Northern runway patch from the Aerosoft updates database?!?   :P

 

http://support.aerosoft.com/support.php?language=en

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With or without the latest Northern runway patch from the Aerosoft updates database?!?   :P

 

http://support.aerosoft.com/support.php?language=en

I had installed that patch beforehand. The new rwy shows up, but the problem was that although I entered the approach into the FMC, the plane wasn't capturing the loc/glideslope.

 

I just did a circuit from/to EDDF (using the 737), and noticed what appears to be the issue. There are 2 different ILS approaches to 25R (ILS Y and ILS Z). The Z approach is CAT II/III. Both approaches are programmed into the FMC, but only the Z approach seems to work. When I tuned to the Z freq (111.35), everything appeared as it should. However, the Y approach was causing problems. On the PFD, the Z approach showed the correct ILS info (IFNW/248 deg), along with the DME info. The loc/glideslope was captured correctly. When I tuned the radio to 109.75, the Y app freq, the PFD showed "109.75/248", and no DME info. Not sure if it's an afcad error or what.

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There's only one ILS freq for the current 25 R runway.

Yep, obviously the Z approach (111.35). Why then is the Y approach appearing in the FMCs, and also listed among the current VATSIM Germany charts? That's what confused me.

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Can't find 109.75 MHz for EDDF. Neither in the older 3 runways charts nor in the current 4 runways charts. They used to consider a HALS/TOP operation but that was for the old 25 L runway ...

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Something happened IRL in 2012; additional ILS's were added:

 

http://fra-spotterforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=1349

 

These are not reflected in the Aerosoft versions, but maybe some freeware *.bgl is available?!?

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Can't find 109.75 MHz for EDDF. Neither in the older 3 runways charts nor in the current 4 runways charts. They used to consider a HALS/TOP operation but that was for the old 25 L runway ...

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Something happened IRL in 2012; additional ILS's were added:

 

http://fra-spotterforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=1349

 

These are not reflected in the Aerosoft versions, but maybe some freeware *.bgl is available?!?

Yep, something is going on. Here are the VATSIM Germany charts for 25R (hence the confusion): Note the 2 different approaches (Y and Z).

http://nav.vatsim-germany.org/files/edgg/charts/eddf/public/EDDF_IAC_RWY25R.pdf

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Huh - a runway can only have one set of localizer/glideslope transmitters. Even if the approaches are different, the ILS for a particular runway will have the same frequency.

 

Did you look to see what the actual frequency in FSX is? That is all that matters. If there are indeed different frequencies in use, then they are not the same set of transmitters.

 

Do you have a link to the real-world charts?

 

Best regards,

Robin.

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Robin, see the NOTAMs linked above for the RW stuff. Maybe they were about to upgrade the ILS installation and would run a test of the new one parallel to using the older one?

 

The (only) in-flightsim frequency for 25R, as stated by Ron already, is the one taken from the Z approach.

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Huh - a runway can only have one set of localizer/glideslope transmitters. Even if the approaches are different, the ILS for a particular runway will have the same frequency.

 

 

Just for clarification: Runway 25R in EDDF has 2 frequencies, thus 2 transmitters. 109.75 for the Y and 111.35 for the Z approach. The reason is that the Y uses a steeper 3.2 degree glideslope whereas the Z has the standard 3 degree slope..

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With that update both approaches can be selected into the FMC - to me it looks like they both feature the same G/S gradient in FSX scenery (3% default). A nice update nevertheless ...

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Unfortunately the flatten terrain now with the unofficial patch looks awful when you approach the new runway from the west.

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Huh - a runway can only have one set of localizer/glideslope transmitters. Even if the approaches are different, the ILS for a particular runway will have the same frequency.

 

Not true:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1311/00443LDAD19.PDF

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1311/00443ROSSLYNLDA19.PDF

 

Two different frequencies from two different arrays.

 

Additionally, there's this:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1311/05100IL1R.PDF

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1311/05100IL19L.PDF

 

Two different array, same frequency.

 

 

 

You could technically install two arrays on the same side of the runway if you really wanted.  Interference would be an issue, but they only turn one array on at a time.  IAD (above) is an example.  If they had both arrays on it would cause indication errors, since both arrays use 110.1.

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Correction for my 'G/S gradient' statement: The indications actually are slightly different when changing frequencies close to the threshold (don't do that IRL! :P). If it's not because of the positioning, it must be due to the gradient then.

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Hi all,

 

on some flights but not on a regular basis I noticed a behavior that appears really odd to me: LOC (and also APP) modes do not arm as expected when the buttons are pressed, i.e. I see no green light on the button and no FMA indication that the modes are armed 

 

 

Aldo

Maybe the following is your problem?

 

According the manual you can arm the approach at any time.

However the LOC can not capture untill your track is within 120 degrees of the inbound course and the GS can not capture untill within 80 degrees of the inbound course.

 

It seems however that in the PMDG you can not ARM LOC/APP mode untill within those limits either.

 

To be honest I dont think this is simulated correct but I am not 100% sure now.

Normally you dont ARM the LOC/APP mode untill cleared approach and this would be on your last vecor and thus well within those limits.

 

Anyway, if it happens again, just wait a little untill you are 80 degrees or less from the inbound course and then try again.

 

 

On a side note; If you fly on the ILS with Lnav then you might end up paralleling the ILS. Arming the LOC might then not capture the LOC (it will stay armed).

You can prevent this by intercepting the ILS with HDG/TCK mode.

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That would be the course setting, not heading, which the 777 doesn't have anyway.

 

It does, just it's in the FMC  :P

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Maybe the following is your problem?

According the manual you can arm the approach at any time.

However the LOC can not capture untill your track is within 120 degrees of the inbound course and the GS can not capture untill within 80 degrees of the inbound course.

It seems however that in the PMDG you can not ARM LOC/APP mode untill within those limits either.

To be honest I dont think this is simulated correct but I am not 100% sure now.

Normally you dont ARM the LOC/APP mode untill cleared approach and this would be on your last vecor and thus well within those limits.

Anyway, if it happens again, just wait a little untill you are 80 degrees or less from the inbound course and then try again.

On a side note; If you fly on the ILS with Lnav then you might end up paralleling the ILS. Arming the LOC might then not capture the LOC (it will stay armed).

You can prevent this by intercepting the ILS with HDG/TCK mode.

I just tested and was able to ARM the LOC/APP mode on any heading. I dont know where I came up with the above idea, but it seems to be simulated correctly. so disregard my comment about the LOC/APP ARM mode being simulated incorrectly please. The rest of my post is ok though.

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There's an update (user-to-user) for MA EDDF available, including both the Y and the Z ILS transmitters (plus some - optional - photoscenery to make the 07L/25R patch less ugly):

 

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/62328-ma-frankfurt-eddf-fsx-neue-afcad-und-photoscenery-fur-07l25r/?p=441454

Thanks for posting this update. I just noticed it. I was able to D/L the AF2_EDDF file, but not the EDDF photo one. Not sure if that 2nd one is required anyway.

 

Where exactly do I place the AF2 file? In my FSX/Aerosoft/Mega Airport FRA folder, or FSX/Add-on scenery/scenery folder? 

 

Many thanks.

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