Hi Jordan,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am happy using the flap speed bugs. My problem is knowing at what point of the approach to use which speeds.

Searching on pprune, I have so far determined that:

1. I should reduce from 180 kts towards 160 kts by 8d
2. Be at 160 kts by 4d

Any additional propositions much appreciated.

Cheers, R

There a couple of tricks you can try:

 

1 - Keep 250 until 20 miles out assuming you are at least 4000ft AGL(not MSL) when you hit the 20nm point select speed to Approach Speed and start configuring as speed decrases. by the time you select flaps 25 (or 30) you will be pretty much on speed and a few miles out (enough to disconnect the AP and fly the airplane manually)

 

2- Do the same but 15nm out and instead of following standard procedure do  flaps 1 then gear down and then flaps as speed decreases, this will put you fully stablished at leas by 500 ftAGL which is standard still in visual conditions. Not airline standards but a nice way of configuring last minute and still land fully configured, on speed and on glideslope

 

Now, again, you need to be about 4000 AGL around the 15 to 20 NM radios, if you are higher you will be descending making it more difficult to reach stabilization on time. Also, use your speed brake if needed, wind direction and speed plays a big role so adapt your procedures to the conditions.

 

Another trick I used when I flew the EMB145 (and works with the 777 and any other aircraft) if you are descending at full speed and need to reach 250 knots by 10Kft, pull the power to idle as soon as you reach 11k and set 600fpm on the Vertical Speed selector. When the plane reaches 10K you will be right at 250!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Dnny.

Just out of curiosity: am I the only one that extends flaps then reduces speed? From the videos/streams I've seen online, no one does it this way. Although it's how it's done in the real world...

 

I use the 220 knots OR minimum clean on downwind and sometimes earlier if I'm exiting out of a hold. Mainly at LHR that is anyway.

 

Base to interception of LOC/RNAV I take 180 knots. In bad weather and gusty conditions I like to be at 180 knots by the time I'm turning base. We all know how great FSX's weather model is.......

 

If no ATC is available I'll take either 160 knots or flap 15/20 speed down to 6/4 DME. I've come right back at 10 DME at times when I want to hand fly longer.

Just out of curiosity: am I the only one that extends flaps then reduces speed? From the videos/streams I've seen online, no one does it this way. Although it's how it's done in the real world...

 

Explain?

I think he is talking about the countless videos you see of simmers reducing speed, aircraft naturally pitches up then they add the next flap In the schedule and the aircrft nose comes down again.

In real life most pilots will reduce the speed first then drop the flaps in order to minimize thrust changes. If you drop the flaps before reducing speed the engines will need to spool up to maintain the selected speed then reduce thrust after you wind the speed down. On the other hand if you reduce your speed first to let say Flap UP speed from 250kts or 300kts, at about 10kts-15kts above Flap UP speed, drop flap 5, keep doing that till you reach landing flap. By doing it this way you will be able to keep the engine thrust low without spooling up and down too much and the flaps will also help you to slow down. This method will also save fuel and also increase for passenger comfort. 

 

Having said that there's nothing wrong to drop the flap or gear first then slow down as long as the speed is below Vfe. Just that pilots always strives to fly the airplane as efficient as possible. I remember some years ago in the classic 747 days without the very strict stabilize approach criteria, rumors was that the check and training captains would not pass people a check if the engines spools up aobve 1000ft.  :lol:  but of course those classic jumbos slows down way much faster than what we are flying now. 

 

If you are keen to practice some hand flying with manual thrust and to improve your instrument scan. Try to set up yourself on a straight approach ILS, in clean configuration at Vref +80kts and maintain 3000ft initially and intercept the LOC at 15nm. At around 12.5-13nm set the speed bug to Vref + 5 ( this is non standard because we dont have a co pilot to set the next flap maneuver speed for us in Flight sim), then pull the thrust to around 30% N1, and let the speed decrease very nicely. As the bottom corner of the G/S diamonds touches the middle of the scale on the PFD, lower the nose to about 2.5deg up to obtain a rate of the descend about 0.5 x Ground speed (ie 200kts, you need -1000fpm, 180kts for 900fpm and so forth) keep droping the flaps till landing configure and you will end up having pitch of 1-2deg up ROD ~750-800fpm. In the process you will need to gently pitch up and down in a range of 1-2deg in order to stay on the G/S. 

 

This is what the Autopilot does if you observe it closely. and after a few times of practice you will be able to get it right. And thats how people fly in real life when they are keen to do some hands on flying while meeting ATC speed requirements (slow down while going down on G/S). 

 

Happy flying. 

The Flight Crew Training Manual Manual? 

 

You jest, but there are times that I really wish I had a manual for the manual . My brother got the good genes, which is why he is the pilot.

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for all of your valuable input.

I shall now try to put all this into practice. Perhaps others will join me and add their experiences here :Bring It On:

Cheers, R

Edited November 9, 201312 yr by Richard McDonald Woods

Explain?

Sorry for the delayed reply - got extremely busy over the past week. Attained my PPL though which is cool! Anyhow...

 

It's just for protection really in case you reduce speed- whilst waiting for speed to fall you get distracted and the aircraft is in a high pitch/power configuration and below flap manoeuvre speed. I started using the method over a year ago and works much better and makes sense why they use that method in the real world.

 

Rob- that's exactly what I see LOL.

 

Driverab330 - go watch a bunch of 777 videos and I can guarantee they'll take x-flap before reducing IAS.

What I do is reduce my speed bug to my minimum maneuvering speed for the next flap setting and throw out my flaps right after I select my speed.

In my humble opinion I see the answer in this way. All the above posts are plenty of precision and correctness but take them as a referral point to get close, not like a dogma, otherwise your attention maybe absorbed too much by a gauge indicating 140 knots instead of 142 knots..this way you could get distracted from looking at the runway !

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Mark II

Sorry for the delayed reply - got extremely busy over the past week. Attained my PPL though which is cool! Anyhow...

 

It's just for protection really in case you reduce speed- whilst waiting for speed to fall you get distracted and the aircraft is in a high pitch/power configuration and below flap manoeuvre speed. I started using the method over a year ago and works much better and makes sense why they use that method in the real world.

 

Rob- that's exactly what I see LOL.

 

Driverab330 - go watch a bunch of 777 videos and I can guarantee they'll take x-flap before reducing IAS.

 

Congrats on the PPL Luke any idea of where you're going next?

I just landed my first real world job/place at commercial flight school here in the UK so I guess we both have reasons to celebrate!

 

Well done.

 

Rich