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Jim Young

BEX/StackHash NTDLL.dll Fix

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 If FSX freezes in flight, it might show an AppCrashView report showing BEX/StackHash and/or NTDLL.dll as the faulting modules, sometimes these crashes will alternate between the faulting module as StackHash and NTDLL.dll.  This has been traced by me to an access violation.  It happens because your user account is not shared with the main FSX folder.  Some have fixed this (or they think they have fixed it) by installing FSX outside of the C:/Program Files (x86) folder (i.e., in something like C:\FSX).  You don't have to do this and can keep FSX/P3D in the default Program Files (x86) folder.  You can fix these types of crashes by downloading and installing a simple program called Take Ownership - http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/add-take-ownership-to-explorer-right-click-menu-in-vista/ (for Vista/Windows 7 users) and here's a tutorial for Windows 8, 8.1 users - http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2814-take-ownership-add-context-menu-windows-8-a.html.  Once installed, you simply go to the main FSX folder, right click it and select Take Ownership in the context Menu.  The CMD window will show up and begin giving you (the user) ownership of the Main FSX directory and all subfolders (if you are not the Administrator, you will need to know the Administrator's password.  Be careful as the CMD window will appear to stop running and you might think it has finished its tasks but do not close it and wait until the CMD Window closes.  It will do this on its own once the task is completed.  If you have a utility, like ASN, AS2012, OPUS, REX, etc., make sure you take ownership of these programs too (if they are in your main FSX folder, this will be done but some install their weather program to another drive.  I have found this fix will work 100% of the time or at least it did for me.

 

This "fix" will be published in the next version of the AVSIM CTD Guide.

 

Best regards,
 
 

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Hi Jim, I was getting the same error with ASN. Turned out I had 'smooth winds' selected in fsuipc. Unchecked the box and now all is well.

 

Jess B

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Hi Jim!

    You recently moved my post to this forum.  I am having exactly what you experienced:  not an OOM or a CTD but a 'freeze' or 'lockup' midflight.  7-8 minutes later everything is back to normal.  I am monitoring my available VAS and it is just below 2 GB at the time of the lockup so it is not an OOM issue.  From what I have read in this forum, it also must not be a fragmented memory issue either since I am not getting the OOM.  When NGX first came out, many who had Windows 7 were having lockups and it was determined that the earlier VISTA version of UIautomationCore.dll had to be used instead of the version that was installed.  I have VISTA 64 so I left everything as is and have never had issues until I recently installed ASN.  I have posted in their forum and the answers I get are to memory problems that would cause a CTD or OOM but I am not having that problem.  This is purely a 'lockup' issue.  I log in as 'administrator" and I start all programs as "administrator" with full ownership privileges so that cannot be MY problem.  I do have a question concerning UIautomationCore.dll:  Could that possibly be causing my problem now with ASN even though it never did before ASN?   My version of the 'dll' is 606001.1800 which came with VISTA 64.  Is this the correct version or must I go back to the VISTA 32 version (605840.16386) as one responder had advocated?  

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not an OOM or a CTD but a 'freeze' or 'lockup' midflight.

 

The CTD Forum is not for just OOM's/CTD's.  Freezes/lockups and other unexplained issues where FSX is not working anymore come to this forum. 

 

In regards to the uiautomationcore.dll... FSX is a 32 bit application so you must use the 32 bit version of the uiautomationcore.dll (which I definitely do not recommend anyone place in their main fsx folder).  I have the definite proof the uiautomationcore.dll does not stop fsx crashes and in fact with it removed from the main fsx folder, many had crashes/freezes stop.  Most members have posted their appcrashview report here for me to analyze and it shows me the uiautomationcore.dll is located in the main fsx folder and the person still had a crash!!  There are hundreds of cases here to prove this dll does not work as advertised.  It might stop the "right click" in the fsx menu crashes but I have been here for a long time and I have not run across anyone who has even had that type of crash.  I have even tried to replicate the fsx menu crashes w/o the uiautomationcore.dll in the main fsx folder and no joy.  Maybe it worked back in the early Vista days but not in the 21st Century.

 

If you are still interested in versions of the uiautomationcore.dll, please check out that section in the AVSIM CTD Guide which you can find in the pinned topic at the top of this forum.  It will tell you about all the different versions and has links to them.

 

If you go down to the Unofficial ActiveSky Forum here at AVSIM there are more posts about this ASN crash and the freeze/lockup happens about mid-flight.  When I went to the task manager (ctrl-alt-del) the ASN Error showed up as it was hidden.  The first couple of times I had this lockup and went to the task manager I did not see the ASN error as I had shut fsx/ASN down.  It is most important that you Take Ownership of your WHOLE FSX folder as there are a lot of modules that interact with each other.  There's another topic close to this one that talks about the ASN crash too.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

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In regards to the uiautomationcore.dll... FSX is a 32 bit application so you must use the 32 bit version of the uiautomationcore.dll (which I definitely do not recommend anyone place in their main fsx folder). 

Jim, I'm missing something... where do you suggest to place it ?

 

Regrds

 

Edit: So, is 'FSX-folder' ownership the culprit ?   I have to re-read the guide most probably....

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So, is 'FSX-folder' ownership the culprit ? I have to re-read the guide most probably....

 

That is likely. Are you having this problem too?  Yikes! For fsx to run properly, it uses other utilities like simconnect and fsuipc.  For this reason, many "experts" (I'm not one of them) recommend placing FSX outside of Program Files (x86) so you can skip the security built into Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8.  I have always kept my installation of FSX inside Program Files (86) and have never had any problems UNTIL installing ASN (where I installed it on another HHD outside of Program Files (X86)).  I simply went to that folder and took ownership.  Took ownership of the main FSX folder too (even though you are the only user on your computer and an Administrator, there is still a hidden Administrator).  This solved my problems PLUS I made sure wind smoothing in the FSUIPC was turned off as Jess B recommended above.

 

Do not place the uiautomationcore.dll in your main fsx folder.  It only fixes one type of freeze/crash and that's if you right click with your mouse inside FSX several times (at least 20 times).

 

Hope this helps.

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Hi Jim!

    I have read that which you recommended and I still apparently need to present my situation with greater clarity and see if you have any ideas.  First off, I have eliminated by trial and error that my VISTA SP1 version vs the VISTA RTM version has any affect on my issue.  I have also tried by removing the dll from my FSX directoy and again, on my system, everything still works the same.  Flying the exact same flight with the exact same ASN weather set for comparison.

 

    As to the information you gleaned from "appcrash", there is not appcrash dialogue appearing on a lockup...this is just a long pause while the computer hangs up on some load or process.  I think the suggestion to use EVENT VIEWER may be what I need to find the answer.  Also, I can exit FSX with task manager but I cannot get any info from task manager (since the whole screen just stays black) for several minutes while whatever is causing the lockup begins to clear.  By the time the Task manager display does appear the information shows me only current information and not any clue as to what had happened several minutes before when it was locked.

 

    I am monitoring my VAS available using a version of an older version of FSUIPC that was deemed to not cause any issues.  At the time of my lockups, I still have over 2.0 GB on average of VAS available.  Lessening my memory demand by moving sliders to the left in FSX and ASN still does not alleviate the lockup.   Also varying the aircraft seems to have little effect on the outcome.  Obviously frame rates vary and the amount of VAS available varies but only slightly.  The lockup still occurs, however, and approximately at the 2 hour inflight point each time.  I have also tried different routes and again it is the 2 hour time point where it occurs but clears by itself after 7-8 minutes if I just let it set.

 

    This next flight I will put my UIautomationCore.dll (the 6001 version which has never posed any menu switching crashes for me in the past) back in my FSX directory and I will try the exact same flight and this time after it clears itself I will tab back to my desktop start menu and activate the Event Viewer to see if it recorded the lockup issue.  I will report back my findings.

 

     If you have any further suggestions on this Jim, please advise me.  I am very anxious to resolve this issue as I know you are also.

 

    BTW, I have VISTA 64 OS SP1.

 

Craig

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there is not appcrash dialogue appearing on a lockup

 

When I have a lockup or a freeze, I have an appcrashview report. 

 

 

 


I can exit FSX with task manager but I cannot get any info from task manager (since the whole screen just stays black) for several minutes while whatever is causing the lockup begins to clear. By the time the Task manager display does appear the information shows me only current information and not any clue as to what had happened several minutes before when it was locked.

 

You have a major memory starvation issue.  It is impossible for me to diagnose as you probably are using tweaks which do nothing but create even more problems for FSX users.  Your system is not capable of running fsx with any of the sliders set too high.  FSX should run okay on the Vista SP1 OS.  You need to go back to day 1 when you first installed FSX.  Delete the Fsx.cfg, restart FSX and the let the config rebuild.  Do not mess with any of the sliders but change the resolution as that is normally wrong when the Fsx.cfg is first built.  This will wipe out all tweaks (yah!) and fsx will perform better.  Your Display Driver settings should be set at the default for FSX too (these are the settings the Nvidia techs said were best for FSX).  If you try to set up your FSX as if you have an i7 4770K CPU w/16GB's of RAM and a GTX780 video card, you will fail.

 

 

 


I am monitoring my VAS available using a version of an older version of FSUIPC that was deemed to not cause any issues.

 

I'm not sure why you are monitoring VAS.  On a Vista 64 bit system, you'll get 4GB's of VAS.  More than enough for you.  Virtual Address Space is not your problem.  With high FSX and display driver settings, your system will simply crash or freeze up.  You need to stop worrying about VAS (unless you are on long flights and using only photoscenery).  It was almost impossible back in the days of Vista and the 9500GT video card where you could turn up the sliders and not have a crash.  Only with today's modern CPU's, MB's and video cards can people start turning things up.  And, even one with the most modern and fastest system still will have trouble running FSX without an issue.  I find it almost impossible.  It's just no fun to be flying around with fps in the single digits or no higher than the teens.  I have to give up a lot so that I can enjoy my sim.

 

You are making a mistake putting the uiautomationcore.dll back into your fsx folder.

 

Lastly, the fix I talked about in the OP is not a fix anymore.  I just got a StackHash_7333 error and ASN gave me the error message I have been getting since I installed ASN.  ASN will be removed from my system.  It's strange as it worked great for my KIAD -KCLT flights in rough weather but the Chicago to St Louis flight created the error again.  I'll wait until HiFi figures out what they did wrong.

 

Best regards,

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Hi Jim!

 

    I admire your tenacity.  My system is perfectly capable of running my FSx with sliders to the right on everything except I keep the water down to 1X and I get 25-30 fps with NGX (I lock at 30 for NGX) and if I use unlimited with my other aircraft I get 50-80 fps and no stutters and until I installed ASN I never had crash or lockup and NEVER had OOM.  Now I get these results by running offline with historic weather and I have my internet disconnected and my AV off.  I have a true Quad Core with 2.63 GHZ ea and only 4 GB RAM but since I have FSX SP2 and a 64 bit OS, I am able to access the full VAS that FSX can handle.  I only use 1024 texture except with ConcordeX and I have my affinity set to 14 since I don't hyperthread.   BTW I have limited my VM to 1 GB (9500GT card) because I know that it will subtract from my VAS.  Memory never has been a big issue with FSX...but CPU power has and I am constantly amazed that my 'older' system outperforms many that have much more horsepower.  That is why I have not opted to upgrade to windows 7.

 

    The reason why I am monitoring my VAS usage was because that is what the HIFI forum diagnosed even though I told them I was not having a memory problem.  And the reason I am not getting an APPCRASH is that it is not crashing!  It is only stopping midflight with the full FSX screen still displaying and full audio but nothing responds until it completes whatever it is that it is trying to do (7-8 minutes) and then the flight continues as normal until destination.  It is like the old days with the slow computers and say FS98.  When it loaded complex scenery it would lock up for several seconds to a minute or so until the scenery load was complete.  That is the kind of lock that I and several others have been experiencing.  It must be different from what you are getting.  In my case the only common denominator is that it consistently is occurring just over 2 hours inflight time.  Flights less than that have no issues.  It is not a CPU power issue and not a memory issue.  BTW I did take your advice and made sure that I had ownership of FSX and ASN and I also took ownership of the UIautomationCore.dll entries in windows\system and sysWOW64 just in case that is an issue, but again whatever is causing my problem seems to eventually solve itself so I am able to continue the flight.  Puzzling for sure!

 

Thanks for you insight and I will monitor this forum in case you or someone else has an epiphany!

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Hi Craig,

 

Thanks for your comments.  I think you are just as hard headed as I am.  Your computer is locking up/freezing and you say you can run your computer just fine with all sliders to the right?  You are also using tweaks that just do not work IMHO. 

 

I just found a small glitch in my Windows Firewall and Users (I'm the only one) could not properly communicate through the firewall.  That might be the issue too.  I may get a chance sometime in the next couple of weeks to test it out.  Right now I have a ton of football games to watch until next Monday.

 

Hopefully you will find a solution.

 

Best regards,

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Tom, how do you know what tweaks I have or do not have?  I have never revealed anything about any tweaks other than my affinity setting and the fact that I was not getting lockups UNTIL ASN was installed.  You may be confusing me with another poster.  My equipment and setup was quite capable of giving me the performance I desired without cutting back so why would I cut back?   This freeze is not caused by the position of my sliders!   How do I know that?  Very simple.  I ran a test flight (the same exact flight I have been using for all my testing) with sliders at 50%, no UT2 traffic and my ASN set to 50 nm CDD and visibility to the same and the lockup occurred at exactly the same inflight time!  Others have run the same test...it is not the issue!

 

FYI, the latest theory on this issue is that FSX is only able to use 2 cores and windows will use ALL cores regardless of the affinity setting in FSX.  Somehow the affinity setting should restrict FSX to two cores or it will lock under heavy CPU use.  This was never an issue in 2006-2007 when FSX came out because core technology was still in the development stage.  I still don't know if you and I are even experiencing the same problems, Tom.  You seem to have so many other crashes and issues that I have fortunately never had.  But here is the link:

 

http://www.hifitechinc.com/forums/showthread.php?2287-Complete-lockup-freeze-every-30-seconds-with-ASN-and-FSX

 

Craig

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Not sure who you are talking to but I have always been against the AffinityMask tweak.  It does not work in FSX.  That's why we left it out of the AVSIM FSX Configuration Guide (which is the only guide you should ever be using for configuration of FSX).

 

Best regards,

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Hi Tom!

 

    Just thought I would update you on what I have learned so far.  In another thread concerning this lockup issue, a fellow sim pilot, Daniel,  was having the same issues and discovered that by simply unlocking his frame rates he stopped the locking.  Didn't make sense but all our other theories seem to have proven false for those of us experiencing this problem.  Well, I am pleased to report that I just completed a 3+ hour flight with my frame rate unlimited and I did not have any lockups.  My sliders were to the right and I had CDD at 105nm with enhanced clouds and UT2 set to 100%.  My frame rates ran between 35-75 the whole trip with wicked weather at departure and destination (including a missed approach and re-entry due to windshear)  I was using the PMDG B744 but even with this aircraft I had previously been unable to complete a 2 hour flight without a lockup when I had my frame rates locked at 31.  It may have been just a lucky fluke so I will continue to setup different long flights with more resource-demanding aircraft (NGX, ConcordeX) in the next few days.  If it proves out then we can all put this one to bed and get on with enjoying our simulations thanks to Daniel.

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Not sure who you are talking to but I have always been against the AffinityMask tweak.  It does not work in FSX.  That's why we left it out of the AVSIM FSX Configuration Guide (which is the only guide you should ever be using for configuration of FSX).

 

Best regards,

 

Hello Jim,

 

Can you clarify this a little please.

In my experience, the tweak does indeed work, or at least it has an effect, as can be seen from

the results below.

Whether it makes a material difference to what is seen on the screen may be another matter.

As a matter of interest, I did a couple of BP tests and that seemed to make no difference.

As ever, I realise that dependant on the OS and CPU these will not be the same for everyone

and I am not advocating either.

I realise too that this is an aged subject which has already been debated to death. 

 

AMresults_zps1fc21fd7.jpg

 

Regards,

Nick

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Hi Nick,

 

I can't clarify it any more than what I said but will try.  Having worked this forum for such a long time, it has been my experience that FSX does not use the affinity mask tweak as advertised.  Maybe it's because it was always used with the BP tweak and one or the other was conflicting. Perhaps it's the old programming (which really isn't that bad).  If someone thinks it works, it's probably like a placebo.  If you run fsx with a four core cpu overclocked at 4.2 or high GHz, you will probably see better performance.  As I stated, NickN is not excited about the tweak now:  See the last post in his latest guide - http://www.simforums.com/forums/the-fsx-computer-system-the-bible-by-nickn_topic46211.html.  I have always stated that tweaks were mainly developed for older computer systems (before Sandy Bridge) and you are better off w/o them.  I have lived without any tweaks since Sandy Bridge but have tweaked the LOD_Radius by increasing it from the max to 6.5 and changing the Texture_Max_Load to 2048.  Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

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Jim, [sorry for delayed answer]

I was having 3 consecutive ntdll.dll CTDs under exactly the same conditions [LevelD 767 at Latin VFR SVMI clicking on 2D overhead to call for external power disconnect] . I started running my FSX as Admin (though my local account is already one) and seems to solve the problem.

Also, I took [my local account] ownership of the folders on all the folders where I have FSX related utils.

 

Regards

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Thanks for posting your solution.  I suspect you had FSX installed in the Program Files (x86) folder or did you install it in a folder like C:\FSX?  C:\FSX is supposedly recommended so you can avoid ownership problems that are associated with the (x86) folder.  I have mine in the (x86) folder but took ownership of the FSX files and folders.  Just remember ntdll.dll is associated with memory issues.

 

Best regards,

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Just a clarification about NTDLL.dll and StackHash CTD's in case someone searches and sees this thread in the future.  The above information is correct and you should definitely make sure you are sharing your folders.  Even though I ensured sharing was accomplished by taking ownership, I still received a periodic StackHash/ntdll.dll CTD.  This time I have traced it to bad memory settings in the BIOS or a wrong voltage setting in the BIOS.  This is easy to do when you try to overclock.  I brought my BIOS settings back to the Optimized Defaults for my Motherboard (ASUS Z87 Deluxe).  That caused an ntdll.dll crash and I saw that ASUS had overclocked some of the cores but not all.  I reset the BIOS to the normal default.  Still got crashes and saw that the change from Optimized Defaults to Normal Defaults do not completely change as some of my settings were still overclocked.  I then reset the overclock to the settings as suggested by ASUS experts and that fixed my crashes (knocking on wood).  Bottom line:  if you get a StackHash or ntdll.dll CTD, check and double-check your BIOS settings if you are overclocked.  This also fixed my issues with ASN software.  It was bad settings in the BIOS and not the software.

 

Best regards,

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 You don't have to do this and can keep FSX/P3D in the default Program Files (x86) folder.  You can fix these types of crashes by downloading and installing a simple program called Take Ownership - http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/add-take-ownership-to-explorer-right-click-menu-in-vista/ (for Vista/Windows 7 users) and here's a tutorial for Windows 8, 8.1 users - http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2814-take-ownership-add-context-menu-windows-8-a.html.  Once installed, you simply go to the main FSX folder, right click it and select Take Ownership in the context Menu. 

 

 

Jim, I have had occasional CTD's with Stackhash error and decided to see what the "Take Ownership" would do for me. I did and it seemed to work GREAT. Now maybe this is my imagination but it also seemed to get rid of some small stutters AND I seem to be holding very close to my fixed 30 fps more. Now would you do me the favor and using your EXPERTISE tell me if I am just imagining these other benefits or could it me. THANKS MUCH!!!

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I've not seen the particular error, but taking over ownership of folders is not such a good idea for security reasons. Usually it is only necessary to give adequate permissions to a folder such as P3D/FSX program files. After installing P3D to the default location, and before adding any other software, the P3D/FSX program files folder permissions should be properly set since addons make directories there and expect to be able to write to files in them. All that need be done is the Users group should be added Write and Modify permissions. However i'm not so sure if simple permissions would work once this error has been introduced, after all it could to be related to incorrect security settings.

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Now would you do me the favor and using your EXPERTISE tell me if I am just imagining these other benefits or could it me.

 

Paul J (of DX10 fame) was the member who suggested this to me a while back so I cannot take full credit for it but I'm glad the suggestion is working for you.  My thinking is that taking complete ownership (or making sure you have complete ownership of files) makes it easier for fsx to fetch and render the textures and other files faster. Microsoft has thrown in so many security rules in Windows to try to protect us from evil people it sometimes affects the efficient operation of a simple program like FSX.  But I don't think it is a solution for stuttering.  High settings still cause this issue.  The less stress you can put on FSX to render a graphic, the better.  Thanks for your kind comments.

 

Best regards,

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