January 2, 201412 yr Author I think I might get rid of the blog .. not sure.. for now I'll keep my thread going on here.. I got quite of bit rules written today.. most of them intro/background/designer notes and got into the meet and potatoes of the game.. This is kind of where I'm hung up right now... I've been working on this one area way to long.. OK.. I'm back to the overall advertising fee.. this simulates just about everything that is discussed above in one neat little package.. I wanted to keep this v1.0 rules fairly simple and design for EFFECT..like a squad wargame.. (oh don't get me started) here is what I've come up to keep track of high traffic areas, I really like this as it is clean and simple and I think gets the point across.. I based it on this list of the 50th busiest airports in the world, I'm using the 2012 list from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic#2012_statistics I also put that in a skyvector format so you can see where they are all at. this will help when choosing your airports to serve. etc. http://tinyurl.com/pzvc5g9 so this is basically how this works.. players choose whatever airports they want to attempt to get service into/out of, etc.. for each airport that you choose.. you must then pay an advertising fee at each airport for each month.. The more you pay the more dice you get, increasing your odds of getting a job/customers. This then is pro-rated as well as the success target numbers to be thrown on the dice. It took me a long time.. but I think I'm going to have to change the base die to a 20 sided die and not the 6 sided.. why? because it gives me greater granularity.. and I'm going to have to change the successful target numbers as well.. let me break this down.. if a player chooses one of airports on the list above.. then the player must pay $5000/month for 1d20 (one 20 sided die) but because he is at a very busy airport he gets a customer on a roll of 7 or less. This I think, very simply represents that it cost more to business at the big boy airports but with an increased chance of getting a customer.. now lets break this down even further.. if a player chooses an airport that is within 1-50 nm of any one of the airports on the above list.. the player pays $4500/month for 1d20 but gets a customer on a roll of 6 or less. 51-100nm = $3000/month for 1d20.. gets a customer on a roll of 5 or less 101-150 nm = $2000/month for 1d20.. gets a customer 4 or less 151 nm + = $1000/month for 1d20..gets a customer on a 3 or less so as you get further out into the boonies and away from the big city/airports.. it costs less to "advertise" but then your chances of getting a customer goes down as well. now the cool thing is , the player then decides how much he wants to spend to advertise at each airport every month.. so here is an example.. I want to serve KBFI, KPAE, KBVS, 74S, KORS. lets say to start.. KBFI is well within 1-50nm of KSEA sooo.. I would have to pay $4500/1d20.. but I want to really increase my chances of customers.. so I'm choosing to spend $22,500 at KBFI but then I'll get 5d20 that I can roll and on will generate a customer on a roll of 7 or less. and so on.. for each airport.. It can get very expensive real quick.. I will probably have to mod these figures once I get some playtesting done.. this then can be modified based on my company reputation, how much time I spend here.. the longer I'm here the more dice I get and/or the target number can increase as well.. say after 6 months.. I can get another die.. but after 1 yr of game time.. my target number goes to 8.. not I have a 40% chance of getting a customer vs 35% as far as the cost.. that might be to high.. not sure.. but..I know its a bit gamey but I do like the overall feel.. this of course will have to play playtested to make sure the balance of how much a player pays to play .. thoughts? or not? Ciao!
January 2, 201412 yr That keeps it simple for sure. Just a couple things..: - How long does one "turn" or roll of the die cover? One day / week / month? - Do the customers stay on once you have them? If they provide steady (ish) business, then those numbers might not be too far off if you're starting with a very small operation. - Once you have customers on the books, do you get say...1d10 per customer, with one roll per (week / month) to determine whether a trip comes up? DB
January 3, 201412 yr Author Just a couple things..: - How long does one "turn" or roll of the die cover? One day / week / month? one turn/roll from the players dice pool is for one week of game time. Every Sunday the dice pool regenerates and then players roll again.. I'm going to have rules to allow players to "move" jobs into the next month, simulating customers calling and booking in advance. this is simple but effective. - Do the customers stay on once you have them? If they provide steady (ish) business, then those numbers might not be too far off if you're starting with a very small operation. yes, I'm starting very very small.. Every Player starts with $100,000.00 and will not have to take a company draw (pay themselves) for 1 yr of gaming time.. I'm thinking the player/pilot has built his time with regional and hauling cargo at midnight at all that miserable humdrum stuff and now decides to venture out and try to make it on their own.. this is where the game starts..Players can borrow up to $500,000.00 but without having to get into rules for mortgaging your house, etc.. The only loan I allow is an unsecured loan.. So the catch is.. Sure you can borrow half a mill. but you have to have been in business for 6 game months and to be able to show a $5000 profit on each month.. (that figure will be adjusted after playtesting).. if this game every gets coded and is played on a server like FSE.. then you can have other players joining forces to form a "company" and each player can pool there own 100k into the "company" funds then allowing them to start big very quickly.. but.. for now you are own your own.and is a bit out of scope for this v1.0 of the rules. As far as keeping customers.. mmm never thought of that.. I really like that a lot, because this would allow players to go on a heavy advertising/marketing blitz at first if so desired then slack off once steady customers start to roll in. At first I racked my brain trying to simplify this out but with good end result and effect. I'm guessing this to be a numbers game like any sales is, yes? if so.. lets say for now.. the player needs to keep track of every 10 customers they get, they get one more die added to their dice pool. This would simulate, quite nicely... the increased chance of said customer to come back as well as the possibility of him well going "elsewhere" I think some playtesting will show if this number (10) is to high or to low.. maybe it should be 20.. fighting the balance of spoon feeding the player vs making him baaaarley get buy and yet not feel that its impossible to "win" - Once you have customers on the books, do you get say...1d10 per customer, with one roll per (week / month) to determine whether a trip comes up? ohhhh! I just know finally got what you are saying.. I had this all combined.. the roll is the customer as well as the trip, I think I will keep it combined for now.. maybe beyond v1.0 I can break this out.. but .. sounds a bit messy.. if I could every get this coded.. then yes, by all means.. I should also point out that when I refer to a "customer" it represents any actual flight.. I do not concern myself with how many people or "souls onboard" because the customer is renting the whole aircraft.. the player makes for example $220/hr if one person or 3 people are in his C172.. a "Customer/Job" can also be a company that would want the player to delivery a small package or documents from one city to another... "when next day air isn't soon enough" ..it can represent a sightseeing tour flight, an airplane ride. etc.. This is how it will kind of work: player makes his roll from his dice pool and the successful rolls are the customers/jobs he gets for that week from Sun to Sat. Then the spreadsheet will randomize which days of the week that falls on. I'm not sure of the rest of the job picking process. that will take some work indeed.. What do you think of having the spreadsheet pick the type of job.. here are the types of jobs that I have come up with: Passenger Charters (which are broken down as follows) City to City – these are from/to an airport that has at least one ILS approach and hard runways. These are the business people flights.. think B200, Phenom 100, etc Sightseeing Tours – Specific tours in a specific area, for example a tour around the San Juan Islands, etc. Players can make up there own tours, but should use a freeware program like Plan G to design a route and then save that out as a flight plan. Sightseeing tours should be able to be duplicated at all times. These are from/to the same airport, generally the players base airport. Hunting/Fishing/Camping – bush flying, servicing cabins, USFS airstrips, off airport locations. Other Tourism – flying to your other airports that you are servicing that doesn't necesarrly fall into the City to City catagory.. your vfr airports, etc. Rides – fixed wing or heli. two seater ultralights.. just about anything goes here. Players can purchase fun aerobatic airplanes, as long as they have at least 2 or more seats in them. Like the Pitts or L-39, etc..or even the plane jane C172 is great for rides as well. From/To the same airport, generally the players base. On Demand Cargo – when next day isn't fast enough.. cargo/freight or special documents.. the customer is still chartering the whole plane.. normal charter rates apply.. This is not based on how much weight they are shipping. Power line inspection/repair (helicoptors only) a reason to allow players to use Helis.. Aircraft ferrying – taking any aircraft from anywhere to anywhere. Crop spraying – spraying crops..players can make up there own "fields" that they need to spray.. mark it out using plan g so you can go back and repeat if necessary. I kind of like having the spreadsheet picking one of the above and then allowing the player to decide if they want to "do" the job or not.. ahhh.. its so overwhelming sometimes.. another thought I had is what if you would base the cost of advertising based on how many of the above services they offer? suppose a plyer just wants to set up shop in the boonies and do "hunting/fishing/camping/bush flying" thing... mmm kinda like the idea.. the more services you would offer the more dice you would get maybe? I got to mess with this idea.. ahhh getting ahead of myself.. anywho.. enough.. back to the word processor. Ciao!
January 4, 201412 yr I like the idea of simplifying whether or not a trip comes up with the die roll. It saves quite a bit of fussing around. Just one note on the advertising. I think it would be better (if possible) to have advertising costs unlinked from the cities served, One of the cool things about the charter business is the unpredictable variety of destinations that come up. Often, you get requests to go into airports you've never even heard of and it's always interesting to look at it to figure out if you can even go there with your aircraft. Is it possible to have a some sort of randomizer for destinations? I'm guessing this would require an extensive database of airports? Letting the player specify which airports they want to service feels more like a scheduled airline than a a charter, as with the latter you never know where you'll end up next week. The list of passenger charter types looks good. For cargo, sounds good. Don't forget to include urgent organ transfers. I think crop spraying might be too specialized for something like this. You wouldn't really find any crops if you set up shop in Las Vegas for instance. Also, helicopters are perfect for off-airport ops. Don't forget Heli-Skiing, golf courses (?), aerial tours and site visits. Advertising per service makes more sense than by airport...and again keeps things really simple. Realistically, the small bush operation won't be getting requests for jet charters to big cities. Any advertising the do will be for the services they offer. If they buy a jet, they can spend money promoting the new service. Thoughts? DB
January 4, 201412 yr Author Just one note on the advertising. I think it would be better (if possible) to have advertising costs unlinked from the cities served, One of the cool things about the charter business is the unpredictable variety of destinations that come up. Often, you get requests to go into airports you've never even heard of and it's always interesting to look at it to figure out if you can even go there with your aircraft. Is it possible to have a some sort of randomizer for destinations? I'm guessing this would require an extensive database of airports? Letting the player specify which airports they want to service feels more like a scheduled airline than a a charter, as with the latter you never know where you'll end up next week. Well, I agree up to a certain extent.. I have the player choose the airports because of the following real life air charter companies, take a look http://www.ritebros.com/map.html http://www.kenmoreair.com/mapdestinations.aspx http://www.mccallaviation.com/about-us.html http://www.roseair.com/ as you can see, they all do advertise that yes we can take you anywhere.. but I'm assuming they are "farming" those flights out to other air charter companies.. ? yes? But for the most part, I'm sure they will service pretty much their area. Also, again going back to the earlier discussion.. We flightsimmers pick the areas in which to fly based on which area has the "prettiest" scenery to fly in.. we don't consider landing fees, fuel cost, etc.. and that is what I'm afraid of. If I don't base it around geography. Everyone and his neighbor will choose the San Juan Islands, etc.or LAX or whatever..Then again... the cost... of where you are at would all be the same.. I was going to combine both.. the Initial "buy in" would be lower but then you would have to have at least one service to start. This would allow a lower start up fee.. in that above example instead of costing $4500 for 1d20 at KBFI.. it would be say $3000 for 1d20 and then another $500 per service offered.. but then you would and additional 1d20 for each service you add on.. This would allow players to start very very small and grow.. getting back to your original question... it would be random based on the list of airports they serve. For example.. so to start I could just say ok.. KBFI and KPAE and then offer city to city.. (remember the service you pick must match the airports you serve.. both have an ILS and hard runways.. the requirements for city to city jobs.) There both within the 50nm to KSEA so.. $3000 each + $500 for the city to city service and you are looking at $6500/month for 3d20 (one for each airport and one for the service) but then you get a customer on a roll of 6 or less instead of the usual 3 or less if located further out. For cargo, sounds good. Don't forget to include urgent organ transfers. noted.. forgot all about urgent organ transfer - wouldn't' they pay more? or not really? I think crop spraying might be too specialized for something like this. You wouldn't really find any crops if you set up shop in Las Vegas for instance. correct, however the player who chooses Las Vegas.. wouldn't/shouldn't choose this service to add.. which I guess there is nothing for him to try or not to... the player can email me and I'll act as GM (Game Master) and we can roll play it out.. no just kidding.. I almost need rules to penalize a player if they do try something crazy like this. Also, helicopters are perfect for off-airport ops. Don't forget Heli-Skiing, golf courses (?), aerial tours and site visits. yep... good stuff.. forgot about this.. need to add this in for sure. Ciao!
January 4, 201412 yr as you can see, they all do advertise that yes we can take you anywhere.. but I'm assuming they are "farming" those flights out to other air charter companies.. ? yes? But for the most part, I'm sure they will service pretty much their area. Nope....Kenmore Air specifically runs a scheduled service as well as ad-hoc charter. They list their "destinations" only for the convenience of their customers visiting their website. In most cases, the more popular charter destinations will be listed on their sites. It saves the otherwise inevitable question of "do you fly to xxx location?" when a customer calls in.....not understanding that a charter company will go anywhere they're asked to (as long as it's safe and makes sense). I take those calls all the time. These companies would be crazy to turn business away unless their aircraft weren't available or the destination was unsuitable. For instance....regardless of where you set up shop....if you start a charter company with a Cessna 206, you should be prepared to fly to any airport within 500nm of your base that has more than 2,500 feet of runway (or turf..or gravel). Perhaps you can find a middle ground.....where the player specifies a list of airports they would like to serve around their base. The amount spent on advertising would affect the likelihood of business coming in....with the same dynamic of being more expensive the closer you are to a major airport. If you have to pay a fee for every airport you want to fly to, it gets really expensive really fast. Imagine if you were a C206 operator in an area with 50+ small airports......or a jet charter company with a fleet of Global Expresses that can reach any 5,000 ft runway in the world. Growth wouldn't really bring the ability to serve more airports, but more business coming in the door and the ability to buy more aircraft..etc. In the real world, new charter operations spend quite a bit of time waiting around for business to come in. Part of the challenge is surviving long enough to start building a client base...and saving enough to start investing more in the business. You have fixed expenses every month (Hangar, payroll, office rental(?), advertising, misc) and at first, you won't be flying enough to cover those costs.....it's a race to break even...and once you do, start saving money and strategically investing more in areas that will grow your business (aircraft interiors, more advertising, new aircraft etc) noted.. forgot all about urgent organ transfer - wouldn't' they pay more? or not really? Organ transfer jobs would go to the lowest available bidder on the list of approved operators (approved by whichever organization arranges the organ transfers...government health organizations, insurance, hospitals etc). Come to think of it....cargo works in a similar fashion. Cheers, DB
January 4, 201412 yr Author OY.. this is getting more difficult all the time.. I agree with what you are saying for sure.. These companies would be crazy to turn business away unless their aircraft weren't available or the destination was unsuitable. For instance....regardless of where you set up shop....if you start a charter company with a Cessna 206, you should be prepared to fly to any airport within 500nm of your base that has more than 2,500 feet of runway (or turf..or gravel). so that is how far? wow, I had no idea..well now.. I'm thinking about re working the whole "engine".. here is a thought.. The player chooses the services they will offer and pays $x amount each service.. then maybe I should go back to what you mentioned earlier about having the spreadsheet spit out a listing of "jobs" and the player can pick what he wants based on where they are located at. If that is the case we might as well all just go play FSE. To pick airports.. there is a freeware program.. I think from Flightsim.com.. that you can specify an airport then a mileage radius and then a degrees and it will choose airports within those parameters.. my math skills just aren't good enough to do that kind of thing with a spreadsheet. that is a tough one.. not sure if I can pull this game off or not. It feels a bit beyond me.. I haven't thrown in the towel yet ahhhh.. I reread your message again.. it didn't sink it all of it at first. Perhaps you can find a middle ground.....where the player specifies a list of airports they would like to serve around their base. The amount spent on advertising would affect the likelihood of business coming in....with the same dynamic of being more expensive the closer you are to a major airport. If you have to pay a fee for every airport you want to fly to, it gets really expensive really fast. Imagine if you were a C206 operator in an area with 50+ small airports......or a jet charter company with a fleet of Global Expresses that can reach any 5,000 ft runway in the world. Growth wouldn't really bring the ability to serve more airports, but more business coming in the door and the ability to buy more aircraft..etc. yes.it would get very expensive to have to pay at every airport. I did think of that.. plus way to fiddly to keep track of for that matter. I really like that.. say you pick your base then get to choose the airports within say a 100nm radius or is that not far enough? I had toyed with the idea.. about having to pay x amount of dollars for every 100nm radius from airport. say $1000 per 100nm actually that comes out to $10/nm mile..I kind of like this.. then the player can list any airports they want to serve within said radius? yes? Ciao!
January 6, 201412 yr I think it can be even more simple than that. Can you let the user input a list of airports they'd like to serve? Obviously, this would get a bit silly with longer range aircraft, but for what you have in mind....small charter operators serving a relatively small (Orbx?) area....I think it could work well.....just input once and forget about it. Then just find a level of advertising costs that keeps the game playable and challenging. Also,100nm is a little close....consider that a C172 has a 3-4 hour endurance at 100kts...that's 300-400nm on a single tank with a very slow aircraft. I've been trying to find something that can spit out a list of useable airports within a certain radius, but haven't found anything as yet. DB
January 6, 201412 yr To pick airports.. there is a freeware program. Destination Finder for FS9 by Martin Gleason is the one... a little gem, I've used it for years. In the library: destination_finder_for_fs9_v1.1.zip
January 6, 201412 yr Author yeah.. I could do that.. that seems doable.. I think I'm going to just forget about the where and all that mess.. I can add that in in future versions.. I need to just keep this thing going and get to at least a playtest version.. btw.. here is what I'm talking about http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=19252029 Ciao!
January 6, 201412 yr Author how about something really simple: forget types of jobs/services, etc.. forget the being closer to big airports and all that stuff players choose the airprots they want to serve and put those in the spreadsheet players pay a $500 (this amount will need to be tweeked for balanced play) for 1d20 for each airport and a job is generated on a roll of 3 or less players can "advertise" more for each airport they want more traffic and this is the cool thing: the flying from where to where automatically takes care of itself.. Ciao!
January 7, 201412 yr Sorry for the delayed replies....getting a little busy with work. That may work. Would the 1d20 be specific to that airport, or just affect the probability of getting a job (to any airport on the list)? DB
January 9, 201412 yr Author to any airport on the list.. I'm still trying to get over a bad chest/head cold.. so I havent' been doing anything with it all for about a week.. hopefully next monday I'll start hacking at it again. Ciao!
April 1, 201511 yr Author Past a year and I'm still at it. I've pretty much scraped everything and started over since it was turning into a tedious monster. I have to focus on playability. If it doesn't run smooth no one in their right mind will want to use it. I've changed things up a bit. I've now gone with 1d100 - percentile dice; the ability to generate a number from 1-100. This works very easily. The close you are to the big major airports your Target Number (TN) goes up; for example if you are at a little airport in the boonies your TN = 10 but say you are at KLAX your TN=65 in other words you have a 10% chance of getting a customer on one die in the boonies versus the 65% chance you have at LAX. you now get a 100nm radius with each base you pick. You pay a monthly fee based on how many airspaces are within that radius of your base airport. For example if you choose KSEZ you have I think like 9 class D and 1 class B (can't remember exactly) then you pay adverising fees of x amount for each D and x amount for each B etc etc but then you get more dice as well. Anyway, it hasn't died completely. I'm very busy with other stuff as well. But it's moving forward; albeit extremely slow. Ciao!
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