ATC Procedures

[Rem19112343 1]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a question regarding when I would contact ATC during my aircraft setup. For example, would I contact DEL before starting my CDU preflight or after and when would I contact ground in my preflight setup?

 

I have watched some youtube videos but everybody seems to have different times so I am unsure when real pilots would contact these stations.

 

Thanks.

[KristianN 10]

It varies from company to company. We set up everything first and then we ask for clearence. After the clearence has been read back correctly we verify the CDU entries.

[Fabo 213]

Some airports will have you call the ATC at a certain time. For example, you might find in textual information in AIP, that you are expected to call ATC between 15 to 10 minutes before planned pushback time, but no less than 10 minutes before pushback if you expect to be ready early.

 

With more experience, you will learn to estimate when that is. Also generally speaking you will need to amend CDU after clearance delivery, but technically theer is no reason that cannot be done even during taxi out (and indeed on busy airports you might learn, that you will be given push&start and be told to expect full clearance during taxi)

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I have a question regarding when I would contact ATC during my aircraft setup. For example, would I contact DEL before starting my CDU preflight or after and when would I contact ground in my preflight setup?

 

Contacting ATC should be done when you are reasonably ready to get the aircraft moving.  One of the reasons you get a clearance is to verify and validate your entry into the system.  Filing a flight plan essentially tells the system that you plan to fly at a particular time, to a particular location.  Calling for clearance is saying you're ready to act on that earlier plan and actually do it.  As such, when you call, you're essentially saying that you are ready to go as soon as you're cleared (within reason).

 

As an example:

You file (or your company files) a flight plan that's scheduled for 0800, on a loosely constrained day (nice weather, no [strict] slot metering).  The system verifies and validates your flight plan based on an 0800 departure, and loosely "reserves" airspace for your flight based on that initial time plus your filed TAS.*

 

You and your FO finish all of your pre-flight checks at 0730, and you're ready to go early.  If you call for clearance, the controller will clear you, and your time is updated in the system to 0730.  This updates that earlier calculation of "reserved" airspace for your flight.  If you called for clearance at 0730 and then just sat there until 0800, it throws off your timing in the system, which has an effect on other flights through that airspace.

 

 

 

The long and short of it, though I've oversimplified much of the process and theory behind it all.  Basically, get everything set up, and then call for clearance.  It's not likely that your route will get changed significantly enough to have to amend the entire thing, so putting the route in prior to calling won't be a wasted effort.  When you call, it's expected that you'll be ready soon after the clearance.

 

 

*If you look at an ICAO flight plan, you'll see sector times listed in the RMK section. These times advise the system how long the flight will be in each FIR/UIR to assist in sending portions of your flight plan to the proper facility at the proper time.  There is a lot more to timing than people think, when it comes to ATC.  The controllers don't need flight information hours before the flight intends to be in their airspace, and they certainly don't need it after the flight has left it.  So, strips are delivered to the controller based on your entry into the system plus a calculation of the distance and your filed TAS.

 

This is also why you might find a flight plan that lists [Airway] [Fix] [Same Airway] - the system has split the flight plan at that fix to send it to separate facilities.  If you were to see something like J14 VUZ J14, what you're seeing is that the flight plan was split at VUZ to send a portion before VUZ to ZME (Memphis Center), and a portion after VUZ to ZTL (Atlanta Center).

 

...more than you ever thought you needed to know about ATC.

[Rem19112343 1]

Thank you so much guys for your informative replies and Kyle's especially gave me insight to the ATC system!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Thank you so much guys for your informative replies and Kyle's especially gave me insight to the ATC system!

 

Spending some time on an FAA contract for that kind of stuff will do that.  Glad it helped!

[vanzunator 3]

Although this is not directly related to your question, there is usually an order to contact different controllers, not all airports have all levels but generally it goes like this:

 

Departure:

1. Clearance delivery
2. Ground
3. Tower
4. Departure
5. CTA/FIR

Arrival:

1. CTA/FIR
2. Arrival
3. Tower
4. Ground

[Humpty 751]

I think you contact delivery even before starting the aircraft during a VFR flight but for an IFR you need route clearance first.

[Rem19112343 1]

 

Although this is not directly related to your question, there is usually an order to contact different controllers, not all airports have all levels but generally it goes like this:

 

Departure:

1. Clearance delivery
2. Ground
3. Tower
4. Departure
5. CTA/FIR

Arrival:

1. CTA/FIR
2. Arrival
3. Tower
4. Ground

 

 

 

I think you contact delivery even before starting the aircraft during a VFR flight but for an IFR you need route clearance first.

 

Yes, even though I know those thanks a lot for the replies! @ironmaiden I think the purpose of delivery is to get route clearance so I don't quite understand your statement (ofcourse I may be wrong).

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Just to clarify:

Taxi and takeoff clearances are not in any order related to route clearances.

 

I could easily call ground at IAD and say:

"Dulles ground - N172DR at the Landmark Ramp, VFR departure to the north with Bravo."

...to depart VFR and then pick up my route clearance for IFR once airborne.

 

Then again, since the entire product line of PMDG is aimed mostly at Part 121 operations, that wouldn't quite work out.  You could, however, get your route clearance after your taxi clearance.  The only requirement is that you pick up your clearance prior to departure.

 

This is often seen when strict metering is in place.  Say weather comes in over your departure fix, but you're ready to push back.  You push and then go sit in the penalty box.  ATC won't clear you onto your route until the fix is reopened, but they'll clear your taxi to the penalty box to wait.

[Humpty 751]

Yes, even though I know those thanks a lot for the replies! @ironmaiden I think the purpose of delivery is to get route clearance so I don't quite understand your statement (ofcourse I may be wrong).

 

Hi,

 

 I have no real flight experience but when flying on Vatsim or Ivao they always tell me to request route clearance first for IFR and then comes the start up , although I only fly VFR.

 

So I think delivery would do both route clearance for IFR and startup request for VFR.  even I am maybe wrong.

[TailDraggerPilot 17]

Hi,

 

I have no real flight experience but when flying on Vatsim or Ivao they always tell me to request route clearance first for IFR and then comes the start up , although I only fly VFR.

 

So I think delivery would do both route clearance for IFR and startup request for VFR. even I am maybe wrong.

IRL if the airport has Clearance delivery then VFR traffic request flight following from then, other wise it's from ground. If it's non-towered or the airport won't give you a flight following squak code then after take off you contact the controlling agency for that area. Example would be SoCal departure if leaving Chino after the tower closes.

[Humpty 751]

IRL if the airport has Clearance delivery then VFR traffic request flight following from then, other wise it's from ground. If it's non-towered or the airport won't give you a flight following squak code then after take off you contact the controlling agency for that area. Example would be SoCal departure if leaving Chino after the tower closes.

 

 

Hey ,

 

 Clearance delivery ? Sorry don't know this one, as on Vatsim / Ivao I only e.g. Schiphol Del / Schiphol ground / Schiphol Tower / App.  these are the only ones i know of when flying online. But yes if there is no del or tower then ground takes over but after departure we are requested to switch to uni com due to unavailability of tower at that moment.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Clearance delivery ?

 

Seems awkwardly close to "Schiphol Del," doesn't it?

 

That's an abbreviation for Schiphol Delivery, which is a shortened version of Schiphol Clearance Delivery. :wink:

 

 

 

Remember, though, that VATSIM/IVAO make tons of concessions versus the real world, so what you do on those networks doesn't resemble a lot of what you'd be doing real world when it comes to working the radios.

 

Real world flight from JYO-CHO: 4/5 controllers, 5 frequencies (ASPER, BARIN, CHOWE, CHO Tower, Cho Ground - usually the same guy...small tower)

 

VATSIM flight from JYO-CHO: 1 person, 1 frequency (DC_Center, or more likely, Potomac Approach)

[Humpty 751]

Seems awkwardly close to "Schiphol Del," doesn't it?

 

That's an abbreviation for Schiphol Delivery, which is a shortened version of Schiphol Clearance Delivery. :wink:

 

 

 

Remember, though, that VATSIM/IVAO make tons of concessions versus the real world, so what you do on those networks doesn't resemble a lot of what you'd be doing real world when it comes to working the radios.

 

Real world flight from JYO-CHO: 4/5 controllers, 5 frequencies (ASPER, BARIN, CHOWE, CHO Tower, Cho Ground - usually the same guy...small tower)

 

VATSIM flight from JYO-CHO: 1 person, 1 frequency (DC_Center, or more likely, Potomac Approach)

 

 

Ah i thought they did follow the real world stuff.