I see a Big Problem with FS10(FS2006).......

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

Once again it seems we have a difference of opinion as to the meaning of the word "brilliant." To me brilliant is just another way of saying extremely good. To you it seems to mean "perfect." Can MSFS be improved? Obviously, in every area. Nobody has suggested otherwise. But that is without doubt true of every other simulation as well. I'm simply disagreeing with the suggestion that the sim is nothing but eye-candy for graphics junkies. You point out that you can't feel the physical forces of flight in MSFS to which I would respond "duh." I mean I think that sort of thing goes without saying and again is a point that applies equally well to all simulations that aren't sitting on a $100,000 motion platform. Desktop PC simulations are far from perfect in their representations of real-world flight, no two ways about it. But in spite of it's obvious limitations, I've learned an absolute mountain about how aircraft operate, about navigation, about the impact of weather and environmental factors on flying, and even about ATC and airport ops from MSFS that to me takes it well beyond the bounds of a simple "game."

[Gdavis0101 0]

I totally agree, that is why I would rather see an update of some kind instead of a whole new program. Personally I hate that mad rush to get updates to make everything I have bought work with a new sim. I don't need two MS Flight Sims on my hard drive, so I guess the answer there is don't buy it.. Like thats going to happen!

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

Well, I responded to your other post, but I guess I'll respond to this as well. We all know this isn't "real". If it was real, it'd be called flight "reality" rather than flight "simulation." I'm afraid I've sorta lost the plot on this little sidebar discussion we're having. How did we get from the topic of how one simulation compares to another to where we are now? Nobody has claimed that MSFS is a perfect representation of reality. All any of us has said is that compared to any of the other civy flightsims MSFS does the best job of putting all the pieces together in one package. There are other sims that may get one element or another "more right", but imho none of those are so far ahead in whatever particular area they excell in that it makes up for what they lack in all the other aspects - if you know what I mean. But no, it certainly isn't real, on that we can agree...

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

"and that means that fancy graphics will always win over good atmospheric, aerodynamic and systems modelling"Just re-reading things and I wanted to respond specifically to this point. What exactly do you consider "good atmospheric, aerodynamic and systems modelling"? Have you tried anything other than the defualt planes in MSFS? I mean I can't imagine much better sytems modelling than say the Flight1 Meridian or ATR, and the aerodynamics of something like RealAir's Spitfire or SF260 seem pretty reasonable to me. But I should add the qualifier that that's all given the obvious limitations of a desktop PC flightsim which I think most of us are fully aware of...

[Johan_Dees 84]

Well, if you all want to see a more hardcore sim in stead of fancy graphics why not team up and contact the guy who is making his own sim and leave MS behind?See : http://msdn.labtech.epitech.net/Blogs/matt...5.aspx?Show=AllJohan[A HREF=http://jdserver.no-ip.com]Personal Server[/A]or..http://62.238.33.10

[Guest IanP]

But we aren't talking about add-ons here, we are talking about Microsoft's base product. The fact that you are referring to other peoples' efforts to do what Microsoft hasn't shows that the base product is not up to the capabilities it possibly could have.I've seen threads recently where people have lambasted a bizjet model maker for not having a full FMC in their product. Why will they do that to someone doing an add-on, but let MS away with an autopilot that can't even do controlled speed descents?Why do developers, every release, have to revisit the default aircraft to make them fly vaguely near to the numbers quoted in FS's own documentation?Why is FSUIPC required to limit the wind changes to ones that don't shake an aircraft to pieces in mid air?Again we're back to the point that most FS users will never visit sites like this. They will look at the default scenery, the default panels and fly the default flight models.Every release, MS have the opportunity to put in better systems, better aerodynamics (i.e. one simulation, not one for ground, one for air and one for water). Instead they give us the fluffy clouds, the trees and buildings and another aircraft or two. Their priority is shifting boxes off shelves and the 'hard core' simmers aren't the people who do that, it's the people who buy FS because it looks nice. If FS had the best flight dyanmics, system setup and everything else on the planet and still cost fifty quid, but looks like the screenshots were taken in 1985, most people would put it down and pick up something that looks like it is pushing the graphics engine to the limit.Pretty pictures sell the product in a store, not what happens behind them, and that at the moment is the bottom line.Ian P.

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

Why would we not include add-ons?? It's one of the great things about MSFS. Like I said earlier, the product is from a marketing standpoint aimed at a broad audience, but thankfully it is designed in such a way that third party developers can improve it and make it much closer to the sim we want it to be. There just isn't enough of "us" out there to support a product designed from the ground up to include the sort of things we add on ourselves. You are entirely correct that the general buying public wants hot graphics and couldn't care less about the "hardcore" stuff we want. Thats why we have the add-ons.

[Guest Kingair315]

It really depends on Your Imagination, and powers of concentration.When you have really been to many countries, to 48 States state parks camping, to 43 National Parks, to hundreds of BLM areas... you "relive" through the flight sime, what you have really done.My wife watched TV, as I sit in the living room at the FS, I do not hear the TV, as I sit with headphones and mike on. She says that I lean into the turns as the aircraft banks. I'm not conscious of that, but am also not conscious of anything in the room. Many others who've been using the FS over two decades found it that "real" long before it had the level of reality it does today.Hey, I can go into Hypnosis, lying in Bed or in a chair, without even a flight sim, and believe that Im actually riding my motorcycle through Yosemite. Can feel the wind in my face, smell the trees, hear the sound of the Goldwing, feel the vibration, etc. when lying in bed . . . Its easier to do when using the FS, feeling that I am in a Cessna or a Waco and enjoy that experience.Hypnosis is a _normal_ experience, every child is in the alpha-theta state we call hypnosis, from the time they wake up, until they go to sleep. It is _unfortunate_ that people have so much stress by the time they are 12-16 they produce less and less alpha-theta brainwaves. Most learning is accomplished in that brainwave state, the reason children learn so much, so fast. Those who practice meditation or self-hypnosis, can maintain the ability to produce alpha/theta brainwaves. Bob

[Guest Kingair315]

>But we aren't talking about add-ons here, we are talking>about Microsoft's base product. The fact that you are>referring to other peoples' efforts to do what Microsoft>hasn't shows that the base product is not up to the>capabilities it possibly could have. First, if MS built everything into the FS that people talk about, they could never sell it. People are complaining because they have to buy an addon with the features they want. Well, if they were included, you would be paying MORE than it would cost to take lessons and get a license. Start adding the price for each addon, FSNav, FSUIPC, Citation X, et.al. to the price, and the number of sales would drop DRASTICALLY.... Personally, Ive bought only FSNAV (several years ago) A membership to http://www.fsgenesis.net and http://www.flightsim.com, Bill Lyons Waco, and Eaglesoft Citation X in over twenty years. I get more aircraft in free addon's than I ever need to be satisfied.... >Why do developers, every release, have to revisit the default>aircraft to make them fly vaguely near to the numbers quoted>in FS's own documentation? So they can make more money... MS knows that, and there is no way they will put it all into one FS. If they did, it would cost too much, and Id stop buying it. But, they are then available for those who want to spend the money to get them. We can only fly one aircraft at a time, so I dont even keep dozens of them in the aircraft folder, it slows down loading time, framerates, causes crashes due to errors in the addons. Ive never had a CTD since installing XP, but once, and that was due to a bad AFCAD file.>Why is FSUIPC required to limit the wind changes to ones that>don't shake an aircraft to pieces in mid air? You tell me, Ive never had to limit wind changes and never had an aircraft shake to pieces, even when I flew through the Hurricanes last year. Will say that during the past week, almost got airsick flying down the east coast in a C182 Island Hopping, it was so rough. Bob

[Dillon 2,197]

FS9 IS THE MOST FUN ONE CAN HAVE WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING THERE (as far as aviation is concerned)... :-) No other sim out there can do a better job at accomplishing this feat especially when it comes to simulating the whole world... "Hypnosis is a _normal_ experience, every child is in the alpha-theta state we call hypnosis, from the time they wake up, until they go to sleep. It is _unfortunate_ that people have so much stress by the time they are 12-16 they produce less and less alpha-theta brainwaves. Most learning is accomplished in that brainwave state, the reason children learn so much, so fast. Those who practice meditation or self-hypnosis, can maintain the ability to produce alpha/theta brainwaves."Great point Bob!!! I learned something about this back when I was in college, amazing I'm hearing it now. Flight Simulation in general can take away a lot of stress if one has the time set aside and no one bothers them. A hobby in general is a good thing and like you mentioned, it helps keep the proper brain waves flowing...

[Dillon 2,197]

Thanks but no thanks... :-rollIt looks good but it would take too long for it to get up to speed with FS9. Plus I can't give up my Eaglesoft and PMDG birds... :-jumpy

[Guest Kingair315]

<<>> 85% of the time, I fly GA, all Props . . . But, not long after the Citation X was available, met a Pilot and Co-Pilot, Husband and Wife, at KFUL who had just landed one. I'd never thought that it could land at Fullerton, on a 3000' stip. A single passenger got out, into a limo which pulled onto the field, and he went elsewhere. They came into the Restraunt had lunch, then came out onto the observation area. Where I introduced my wife and we talked. They were ex Russian AF Pilots. The wife was the "Pilot" and my wife never let me forget it. :-D Ever since that day, for the first time had the desire to get a good Citation X for the FS, and finally found it in Eaglesoft's . . .After using the FS for over two decades, I'd never give it up either. From time to time, my wife has bought other games, and Ive tried them. But, nothing appeals to me enough to take me away from the sim for more than a week, except a vacation. Now that we have the RV and a Laptop, not even that does. One of the best places to use it, is after dark in a National Park Campground, following the route we just took to get there. Bob