The iFly integration is awesome, I hope PMDG will integrate ASN to 737NGX and T7.

 

Marko

Hi Tom,

 

your linked post contains some inaccuracies (the information about how ASN works). You're welcomed to give our trial a go in order to see in action how ASN behaves in relation to CBs, radar depiction, cloud tops, hail simulation, cloud turbulence, t-storm related drafts, precip localization etc. Or watch the various videos demonstrating ASN achieving now what you consider impossible.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Kostas,

 

Thank you for your offer.

Actually I have a copy of AS21012, and I've already tested ASNext with the free trial.

And I don't think I posted something inaccurate about ASN. 

Extracted from ASN feature's page:

 

• Utilizing a combination of Theme Control, SimConnect Interfacing, and new Low-Level interfacing via our brand new AS Connect module, comprehensive control of the weather environment is finally achieved

 

So I stated that ASN uses Weather Themes, which is admitted in the text above. Also stated that Opus was the first company to employ this technic, which is also true. Now facts are it really doesn't matter who was the pioneer and who are followers; what really matters is that the Theme method is IMO the best approach to complete weather depicition. If ASN uses it, combined with whatever additional technics, then kudos to ASN.

 

But limitations still apply to the cell structure I described on that post, which is the method FS uses to manage weather variables. IMO there's no other one. FS can build that structure by itself, just using METAR information and applying self algorithms, which are often inaccurate, or can load a weather theme and fill the cells with its data. A weather addon, like ASN, may be able to build a very complex and accurate wx theme, let FS load and represent it. AND even manage single cell updates from the structure FS has in memory. This last process -how to extract/inject info from/to a wx cell structure embedded in FS memory- has been and somehow is still a mistery to many developers. From what you advertise in your product's page, and so far I've tested, seems that you've already achieved that, so kudos again to ASN  :smile2:

 

Speaking of limitations, clouds sprites are randomly built by FS, and once displayed on screen, not even FS can accurate predict its position as clouds. This is easily comprobable when flying through a cloud layer with rain enabled; if there are broken clouds rain is still visible even when flying in open sky between clouds. FS in this case applies rain flag to the entire layer for the entire 16x16 km cell.

 

Something similar happens with CB clouds. Normally a thunderstorm contains storm clouds that are wider than a single wx cell; in this case wx radar depicition would be the most accurate, and turbulence/custom special effects -like hail sound- can be injected with ultra realistic results. ASN, as well as other wx addons, does it very well.

 

However, if few (1-2/8) CB clouds are present, there might be more than a single cloud that fits whitin a wx cell. In case of a severe turbulence flag enabled, the aircraft will shake the same on open sky and within the cloud sprite, because the turbulence flag applies to the complete cell. I had the opportunity to reproduce this condition in ASN and it worked as expected -same turbulence in and out of the CB cloud.

 

All that said, wx in FS is a complex stuff, and there are more technical aspects suitable to discuss that are IMO beyond the scope of this thread. And I would say, lastly, that miracles are not possible here but if you have made one with ASN, I'd like to know about it  :smile2:

 

Regards,

Tom

Hi Tom,

 

I said that your comment is inaccurate because it was only partially correct. You present ASN as just using themes. But, ASN in addition to the themes, knows the exact cloud sprite positions inside a theme cell (even if they are few- scattered or broken) and that's the main difference. The video I linked above using ASN provided cloud/precip data for their radar clearly demonstrates that. What also proves this statement is using our map (in detail mode) and zooming closely to 20 miles range for example. You'll see the exact cloud sprite positions with a resolution much higher than that of a single "cell", even if the clouds are few or scattered in this case.

 

The accuracy of knowing the exact cloud sprites inside a theme cell is what makes adjusting various ambient parameters much more accurate. For example completely avoiding the rain out of nowhere issue, or adjusting the precipitation rate, downdrafts/updrafts (since these are also directly controlled) based on the exact thickness and precipitation load of the cloud sprites directly above the aircraft. (see this draft video I made back in September where the increase in precipitation rate is demonstrated while the clouds move with the wind to the SE and the storm cell enters the area above the aircraft like in real life)

 

What you noticed (about turbulence close to CBs but also outside of them), is done in purpose, because this is what happens in real life and we simulate t-storm avoidance procedures extremely accurately (including the rules about the overflying safety altitude margin). 

 

Tom,

there are no miracles in computer science. If you see the data (clouds in this case) inside your sim, then it's somewhere in memory and it can be read. It's just a matter of having the technical competence and giving yourself enough time (months) and patience being dedicated to your goal. So, once again I invite you to take a (closer this time) look at ASN and what it offers  

 

This thread is not of course about ASN or about weather engines in general. It's about a realistic weather radar and what is required to achieve this in fsx. Using "wx theme cell" resolution is simply not enough for this. A combination of accurate precip load localization with a combination of direct ambient precip/turbulence/shear control is needed so that a realistic wx radar (including predictive wind shear functionality) can be realized. And that's exactly what ASN offers right now out of the box. 

 

Kostas

 

PS: A small (technical) correction. You repeat yourself that a cell is 16x16 km. This is not true. The cloud model used to "fill" the cell is 16x16 km and then it scales up or down. The length of the cell in the latitude axis is about 19500 meters, while in the longitude axis varies according to the present aircraft latitude and may be as large as ~26000 meters in the equator while shrinking as latitudes become more extreme. This is one of the known fsx 2d-3d conversion restrictions. This will become evident if you move to the southern pole (since it's day now) and load up the weather (whatever weather you like). The results will be simply... funny. And... no, ASN can't fix this too

Hi Kostas,

 

I didn't say ASN was using wx themes exclusively, I stated it has incorporated wx themes, actually an option that to my knowledge wasn't present in former versions like AS2012.

And I still say that it is a substantial improvement, because whatever ultra sophisticated method you want to apply to weather generation should start from a wx depicted theme grid.

 

I also still believe that it is not possible to monitor and/or manipulate the exact position of a cloud sprite, because managing the extremely amount of information which depends on planar and volumetric mesh that varies with aircraft position, displacement due to wind effects, etc would require so much resources as to make the entire system impractical.

Different would be the case if ASN was able to inject each cloud sprite into the simulator, something you don't mention in the advertising pages. 

However, I do believe that accurate algorithms to predict where cloud sprites would display are very feasible, plus combined with a complete management of a wx cell data that I also believe ASN was able to achieve results in the excellent product it seems to be, maybe being so far a notch ahead of its competitors. 

 

Two last comments:

-The CB phenomena I described and you stated was by purpose, if true would be reallistically wrong. Have you been flying around CBs and suddenly get trapped by one in real life? I can tell you that things outside and inside the cloud are very, very different...

 

-I spoke of 16x16 km as a simplification. Despite I didn't take the time to make a detailed measurement like you did, I obviously am aware of the flat earth sympthon in FS and how things "thight up" from the ecuator to the poles -including funny thighted clouds!

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

Tom,

 

Can you point us to any FS software you have programed?

Tom,

 

Can you point us to any FS software you have programed?

Right after you show us your list.

 

Tom has done lots in FS, unlike you.

Ed,

 

Can you point to any FS software Tom has programed?

Tom,

 

Can you point us to any FS software you have programed?

 

Jim,

 

I'm mostly a private developer, though I've participated in a few commercial projects.

Besides, I use to participate in FS development´s forums, trying to help other developers.

 

Are you interested in something that I might help with?

 

Tom

Ed,

 

Can you point to any FS software Tom has programed?

I've seen him work with others in the FSDeveloper forums and he's quite knowledgeable and as he's already stated, most of his stuff is private.

 

So... where's your software that you've programmed??

(Lol.)

 

 

Are you interested in something that I might help with?

 

Hi Tom,

 

Yes there is. When one publicly starts to split hairs, play word games, question the actual developer of said software as to what can and cannot be done with any type of accuracy/performance, than the readership deserves to know the level of expertise of the one making such statements. And now the readership has that information.

 

Hi Ed,

 

One does not need to be a programmer to ask for relevant information. Thanks.  

One does not need to be a programmer to ask for relevant information

The only time it is considered polite to inquire upon someone's 'credentials' is when one is intending to consider using said person's 'expertise'.

 

Otherwise, it's just plain rude.

No use trying to teach him common courtesy Ed...

To redirect ever so slightly, away from all this rancor, I have a question for WarpD.

 

Would you Mindstar guys ever consider taking advantage of the Active Sky Next API  to bring XM Weather to your 430 and 530 GNS?  There are a lot of interesting possibilities with ASN, and I think that in particular would be pretty cool....

To redirect ever so slightly, away from all this rancor, I have a question for WarpD.

 

Would you Mindstar guys ever consider taking advantage of the Active Sky Next API  to bring XM Weather to your 430 and 530 GNS?  There are a lot of interesting possibilities with ASN, and I think that in particular would be pretty cool....

No. if they're using a hack, we legally can't go that route.