No DME info on PFD

[RotorWash 1]

Hi Guys

 

Landing at ybcs, I have no DME info (DME _ _ _ ) on pfd. I perform a full auto land no probs, however, I use voxatc, and my instructions are to report at DME 4. Due to this, I can only estimate DME 4 on my arrival. Why do I have no DME reference anunciated ? Up to date airac, Orbyx ybcs, both nav radio's tuned.

 

Appreciate any help.

[FLEX1978 373]

Does the ILS have a DME? Not every ILS has DME.  For sim purposes you can build a custom waypoint or tune the airfields VOR

[pcubine 143]

Maybe there is no UHF receiver/transmitter (transponder) on the ground at YBCS. Have you ever landed there before and received DME information on the PFD. There are a lot of airports that don't have it, in which case the PFD is goung to look exactly as you described it.

 

Michael Cubine

[Dave_YVR 1,000]

Read the approach plate for the ILS 15. ILS freq is 109.9 but you also use the CS VOR on 113.0 which gives you DME info..

[RotorWash 1]

Thanks for the responce guys

 

Reading the Rwy 15 approach plate, the ils does appear to have dme capabilitys. I have landed here a few times, but only recently using voxatc, which brought my attention to it. I have noticed the cs vor detailed on the plate, but am unfamiliar with the terminoligy, as i am just learning. I have imput 109.9 into both nav 1 and nav 2 radio's, so where do i enter the 113.0 frequencey ?

 

Thanks for your guidance.

[CraigyW 30]

109.9 in Nav 1 113.0 in Nav 2.

 

Because there isn't a DME with the ILS the dist wont be displayed on the PFD, make sure you switch VOR 1 and 2 on on  the glare shield panel and dist will be displayed on the ND on the bottom right

[Gason 6]

And 109.9 as stand by in Nav 2 so you can switch over when established on the ILS if you are planning to do autolandings.

Otherwise, no need to change Nav 2 for a "standard" ILS landing.

 

 

Goran

[Spin737 102]

You'd probably just use an approximation from the approach chart and simply look at the DIST to the next fix.

 

It's a little unusual to be asked to call a 4 mile final.

[CraigyW 30]

In a no radar environment and with IMC the cutoff distance for dep maybe 3nm so a 4nm call will help the tower controller decide whether to depart an aircraft or not

[aentwis 61]

You can always have a look at the AFCAD for the airport and edit the ILS to be DME-capable if you want... it may not reflect the real world (don't have the Cairns plates here in front of me), but you can add it to the ILS in the afcad...

 

A

[RotorWash 1]

Thanks guys.

 

I'll give some of these ago and report back.

 

In a no radar environment and with IMC the cutoff distance for dep maybe 3nm so a 4nm call will help the tower controller decide whether to depart an aircraft or not

 

I think this may be true, as there is multiple aircraft lined up at the departure threshold on arrival

 

Cheers

 

Rotor

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Why do I have no DME reference anunciated ?

 

When you fly approaches, you do actually need to read the charts - carefully.  Too often, simmers (and real world pilots, on occasion) look at the chart and assume a chart is a chart, and an ILS is an ILS.  That works a lot of the time, but it won't work all the time, so pay attention all the time.

 

The ILS (more specifically, the LOC) does not have DME capabilities.  On US charts, this is more explicit (a LOC with a DME - whether or not that is used as part of an ILS - will list LOC/DME when it has DME).  Here, on the other hand, the chart clearly states "GNSS permitted in lieu of DME Reference waypoint CS VOR."  This indicates (along with the rather large "CS VOR/DME" on the chart graphic, and the NAVAID RQ box at the top right) that the VOR/DME is the source of DME information.

 

Further, I'd chalk the 4nm thing up to a reminder to the tower controller that you're inbound and close.  It's not a huge deal if you don't say something at 4nm exactly (though, I have my doubts as to how VoxATC handles it - those things are notoriously terrible at realistic ATC).

 

 

 

In a no radar environment and with IMC the cutoff distance for dep maybe 3nm so a 4nm call will help the tower controller decide whether to depart an aircraft or not

 

YBCS is actually a facility covered by radar (inferred on the chart with the vectoring comment).  Regardless, tower control is generally considered non-radar.  While some facilities have radar (regardless of size - even CHO has a STARS radar display, though it's really only there because it's covered by Potomac Consolidated TRACON), their technique is non-radar.  Takeoff and landing clearances follow the basic procedures of tower control, which are written to non-radar standards.  The same runway separation requirements (in FAA land, at least) make no reference to radar or non-radar.  The same runway separation requirements of an aircraft arriving behind a departing aircraft is at max just over 1nm (with the min at just over a half mile).

 

Even CHO will ask you to report a 5 mile final on occasion, despite having one of PCT's radars on a hill just off of the runway centerline and a STARS display in the tower.  It's less to do with procedure, and more to do with a reminder and immediacy.  If the traffic is still 15nm out with no traffic closer in to the field, the controller can ask the pilot to report when closer (particularly if the aircraft is slower) so that he or she can concentrate on other things (recording an ATIS, coordinating something with another facility, working traffic on ground frequency, and so on).  When the traffic is 5nm out, the pilot reports, the controller is reminded, takes another overview of the traffic situation, and issues the appropriate instruction (at CHO, generally "cleared to land.")

 

 

 

It's a little unusual to be asked to call a 4 mile final.

 

I mean...it's OZ...everything is a little upside down compared to how we see things...

 

...in reality, note that he was using VoxATC, which is one of those ATC add-ons.  They're hardly ever a true approximation of real world ATC, so any time I see some question related to how to comply with X instruction with a note about an ATC add-on, I crack my knuckles to begin an in-depth message about the accuracy of ATC add-ons.

 

 

In a no radar environment and with IMC the cutoff distance for dep maybe 3nm so a 4nm call will help the tower controller decide whether to depart an aircraft or not

 

I think this may be true, as there is multiple aircraft lined up at the departure threshold on arrival

 

Nope.  Tower is non-radar control anyway.  Tower's "radar" is their eyes.  There are several towers out there without any radar repeaters at all (or even if there are radar repeaters, they're not always used procedurally and are only situational awareness aids).

 

See the above post about separation minimums.  Granted, I speak from the FAA side, but I don't think OZ would be too different.

[RotorWash 1]

Thanks for you responce Scandi. I should have possibly mentioned, due to weather conditions, I am being vectored very accurately by voxatc to RWY 15 (ILS or LOC) unlike RWY 33 which is LOC/DME (now I realize why people are suggesting that I read the chart a bit better). As RWY 15 is not DME, this is where my issue lies and due to the voxatc instruction (report 4 DME). However, I have tuned one radio to to the DME station as suggested above, and it does provide a DME reading on my ND. However, switching to this freq does mess up my automation on approach, possibly due to my inexperience of handling the NGX. I am making improvements, and my final goal is to perform a semi automated approach at RWY 15, finishing off with a manual landing from approx 2 DME, all under controll of voxatc. Not sure how realistic this is in the r/w, but sure feels realistic to me. All, please feel free to make further comment/advice, as I would like to crack this approach with perfection.

 

Cheers

 

Rotor

[Fabo 213]

What I would do (and many pilots actually do)

 

-take your RW15 fix from legs page (downselect)

-go to fix page

-put in RW15 in the fix (might not really work, I think there was a problem there in the NGX. In such case, using airport reference should be good enough for your purposes)

-create a 4nm ring 

-watch for ring on ND in map mode.

[RotorWash 1]

Thanks Fabo, I have not used the fix options as yet, I will try this on my next run. Once voxatc has finished vectoring me onto approach RWY 15, I am instructed to hold altitude at 1900' and report localiser capture ( this is about 10 DME ). At this point, I arm the localiser, which captures about 7 DME. I have some questions at this point.

1. Should I have both nav radios tuned to 109.9 at this point or is one radio sufficient (not doing a cat iii approach)?

2. Do I need to arm approach at this time also, and select CMD B, or is this not required for a standard ils approach ?

3. At what stage should I disconnect the AP/AT to perform the manual landing ?

4. Should I be performing a full manual land on this type of approach, or a partial automated/ manual landing ?

 

Once I have reported localiser capture, voxatc instructs me to report 4 DME. At 4 DME, I am transferred to another controller who clears me for landing. Hope this all makes sence ?

 

Thanks in advance.