Hey all,

 

I played the sim a lot about a year ago and posted here regularly, however since then I have moved home and completely lost my disks. I wanted to install the sim on a new PC but looks like I'll have to repurchase.

 

I can't actually remember what the process was when I first played, is it possible my key will be attached to an email address and I could contact the devs with proof of purchase and maybe rebuy the disks and key at a discounted rate?

 

If not I guess I'll just have to rebuy!

there is no key for xplane. u just need to have the disks

there is no key for xplane. u just need to have the disks

Hi Saed,

 

Thanks for the reply. Annoyingly I've also misplaced the disks - and I presume it's not possible to legally download the client from the website Will have to repurchase then.

offcourse you have to repurchase..

If you loose your car, do you think a car dealer will discount you the new one?

I never dealt with LR, but I'd still try emailing them and providing your proof of purchase.  Maybe they will give you a discount or only make you pay shipping.  Doesn't hurt to try.

offcourse you have to repurchase..

If you loose your car, do you think a car dealer will discount you the new one?

No, but that's a physical and tangible object. Quite often if you lose the disks or physical copy of a piece of software it is possible to re-download it with the use of a registered email or user name. I had forgotten whether or not I had ever registered with an email or CD Key related to a user name, and was unsure of whether X-Plane offered some form of download platform.

 

I don't think any of these questions are unreasonable given the nature of software acquisition today, so please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.

 

 

No, but that's a physical and tangible object

 

The disks were a physical and tangible object that you loaded on your hard disk - or is your hard disk not a physical and tangible object?

The disks were a physical and tangible object that you loaded on your hard disk - or is your hard disk not a physical and tangible object?

Software is in absolutely no way a physical and tangible object. I have a fairly firm grasp on this as I'm a software engineer by trade - you seem confused between the medium used to store software, and the software itself. Software can be written on paper if you could find a machine that could compile and run it. The cost of a DVD is very cheap, it is the licence which costs the money. In theory, the licence is not attached to the physical ownership of the game but that's a complex issue which delves into the realm of IP.

 

I simply asked, is there a method similar to Steam acquisition whereby I can access a downloadable copy of the game which I had previously paid for in a store, or whether I could get some form of discount if I could prove I'd already paid for the licence. For example, I could buy Battlefield 4 in a physical shop, bring it home, register it on the EA download service and then even if I lost the disks I could re-download the game as it's attached to my email address.

 

That is all I asked. I now have the answer. I am not annoyed about the answer, so I'm not sure why you've jumped in to argue.

How then can software exist if has no medium?

I think emailing LR using either [email protected] or [email protected] is probably the best thing to do Luke.

 

I hope you get it sorted out :-)

How then can software exist if has no medium?

That is well related to my question - and a very interesting question in law and computing. I had hoped a particular medium for the software was a remote server from which I could download it. Also, software is an abstract structure or set of instructions. For example, I currently have in my head a huge number of software algorithms, logic arguments and syntax from c#, Java, Ruby and Python. I can imagine a piece of software and run it on a piece of paper; or even in my head. A computer is not actually required to run a piece of software, it is just a very efficient way of doing it. For example, if we take a basic bit of Java syntax...

 

class Counter {

    public static void main (String[] args ) {

for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {

       System.out.println(i);

}

}

}

 

That loop will output the following;

 

0

1

2

 

So you see, a computer isn't required to run the instructions given by a piece of software, I just mentally compiled and ran the three loops of that code. It is simply an algorithm that some people are able to interpret and solve (and it happens that computers are very good at it).

 

Software is particularly similar to, for example, long division or solving a linear equation. Just instructions that can be read by machines (but also people). I'm not sure if I've explained myself well, and I know this is a little outside the scope of the conversation, but I'm trying to convey the idea that no software engineer or computer scientist would ever argue that software is hardware dependent; just hardware efficient.

I think emailing LR using either [email protected] or [email protected] is probably the best thing to do Luke.

 

I hope you get it sorted out :-)

Thanks jcomm, that's a good idea and I'll drop them an email now as I have the receipt etc here. If I don't get any luck I'll repurchase anyway, supporting LR further can't be a bad thing

To be more explicit, how can X-Plane exist if it has a medium? Where does it exist if it has medium - in Austin's head?

To be more explicit, how can X-Plane exist if it has a medium? Where does it exist if it has medium - in Austin's head?

 

Look, I'm sorry that the idea that a mathematical structure such as software can exist independently of medium is a complex one (the law has this same problem which is why intellectual property as regards software is such a difficult area, because it is, in fact, a mathematical construct that doesn't require medium). It's not particularly easy to explain the nature of code and algorithms to a non-programmer.

 

If you were a software engineer, or a computer scientist, or a mathematician, you would better be able to grasp the abstract nature of software. I'm not just making this up, this isn't just my opinion - it's the entire reason software purchase grants you a licence; the physical media is irrelevant. The value is in the intellectual and abstract nature of the code.

 

Also, if Austin has coded all of X-Plane on his own, then yes, absolutely X-Plane as a software medium can exist in his head (provided he has an excellent memory).

 

I have tried to show you an example of how code does not require any specific medium by writing out an algorithm by 'hand', but you seem to have skipped right over that.

 

We can easily end this 'debate', because I can point you to my Steam library. I 'own' 80 games yet I only have the physical disks for 3 or 4 of them. Physical ownership of software medium is not a pre-requisite to the licence to run a piece of software.

 

Honestly, I can't explain it any more explicitly than that.

I think emailing LR using either [email protected] or [email protected] is probably the best thing to do Luke.

 

I hope you get it sorted out :-)

I think jcomm is right, I recall reading on another X-plane forum that LR will replace lost or damaged discs.

 

Give it a shot, they are a tiny company so they are more likely to value retaining their customers, than a much larger company.

Look, I'm sorry that the idea that a mathematical structure such as software can exist independently of medium is a complex one (the law has this same problem which is why intellectual property as regards software is such a difficult area, because it is, in fact, a mathematical construct that doesn't require medium). It's not particularly easy to explain the nature of code and algorithms to a non-programmer.

 

Everybody should have some insight on the work of great computer science personalities. I used to spend at least two days in my "Theory of  Languages" lectures telling my listeners about the works of Turing, Godel, Church, Hilbert et al... Proving people how limited computers and programs are, and how so much bigger the theory behind them can "glimpse" is simply fascinating .... and at the same time, decepting.... That Church-Turing Thesis is so powerful, and at the same time so "devastating" regarding what our beloved Rigs can do for us... Well... 

 

At least I can still look forward for LR, LM, etc... to come up with even more great algorithms for simulating the physics of flight :-)  LM found a nice way to make them available by repeatable / unlimited download, while LR is still tied to the relocatable material support of their software, although I've heard about their intentions to partner with Steam!