I have a couple of questions re setting up the MCP for take off without using the FMC (no plan to use Vnav or Lnav at this stage in my learning).

 

(1) Heading Select - while I *can* enable Heading Select on the ground, is that the generally accepted practice? Or should I press it after take off, like at 400' agl? I'm inclined to select it before T.O. but don't know if there is any reason not to? Does TOGA mode command FD's wings level during the initial T.O.?

 

(2) When to set climb power after taking off? I'm taking off using TOGA but am unsure as to how and when to engage climb thrust? I am thinking 1500' agl as for the when but do I just press N1 mode?

 

Thanks...

 

 

 

I have a couple of questions re setting up the MCP for take off without using the FMC (no plan to use Vnav or Lnav at this stage in my learning).

 

As I said in the other thread, you should really try the tutorials.

 

Really...

 

While I can completely appreciate wanting to learn other modes of the AP than LNAV and VNAV, you seem to be lacking the knowledge that's required at even the more basic levels.  That leads me to my "please try the tutorials" suggestion.  I promise that you'll learn a ton from them.

 

 

 

(1) Heading Select - while I *can* enable Heading Select on the ground, is that the generally accepted practice?  Or should I press it after take off, like at 400' agl?  I'm inclined to select it before T.O. but don't know if there is any reason not to?

 

Yes.  Enable it on the ground.

 

Why save extra work for a high task load situation at 400 feet?

 

No real reason as to why you would wait.

 

 

 

Does TOGA mode command FD's wings level during the initial T.O.?

 

Depends on the option selected in the options menus (something you would've learned from the intro manual...)

 

 

 

(2) When to set climb power after taking off?  I'm taking off using TOGA but am unsure as to how and when to engage climb thrust?

 

It's done automatically.  See the tutorials.

If you're not using the automagic, it depends on your departure SOP, which would come from an airline/operator.  These are generally either NADP 1 or NADP 2.  Google it.

 

 

 

I am thinking 1500' agl as for the when but do I just press N1 mode?

 

No.  N1 mode simply places the throttles on your throttle limit.  If you're not using the FMC, you're not going to have a specific N1 limit set for takeoff or climb (unless you've set it manually).  Since you're not using the FMC, your limit is essentially MCT (max continuous thrust) by default.  You make the manual N1 adjustment by adjusting the knob just over the engine display.  If you don't manually adjust that knob, you'd manually have to adjust the thrust using the throttles.

 

...but what N1 do you set the thrust at for climb?  What N1 do you set it at for takeoff?  All of that would come from performance tables, or performance calculators (like TOPCAT).  How all that works is described in tutorials 1 and 2.

 

The tutorials (and intro manual) have pictures for better explanations of what all is going on.  I'm really not sure why you're seemingly avoiding them.  Ideally, read the intro manual, too.  As I've said, they're worth their weight in gold.

 

You bought a study sim.  It's going to require some studying on your own.

Actually, in the last 4 weeks I have read the PMDG FCOM1 and FCOM2 manuals...and I have looked at their tutorials...the first one twice...and I have googled 737NGX FMC tutorials and read many .PDF tutorials and looked at many, many YouTube tutorials. All of what I have seen address and teach how to use LNAV and VNAV for their demos.

 

I'm flying from KLAX to KLAS (Las Vegas) and for LAX you take off west bound (LOOP6 SID) out over the ocean (on ATC Radar Vectors) and then make a 180 back to the airport for a 10,000' fly over the VOR. Here is where the FMC route actually begins and it's here (or approaching the KLAX VOR) where you can finally use LNAV/VNAV). So, in my scenario I have to take off just using the MCP and the perf init settings data in the FMC.

 

I'm not using any NADP for my flight. I'm using normal TO thrust and normal Climb thrust.

 

>You bought a study sim.  It's going to require some studying on your own.

I agree 100% and I do have a genral idea of what the study level is for a jetliner.

 

Some background on my flying experience. I'm a retired airline instructor pilot for one of the *major* airlines still flying in the US. Prior to working for the airline in flight crew training and teaching in the level D sims, I worked for McDonnell Douglas instructing in their MD-90 sim. After McDonnell, I worked for Boeing teaching on their B-717 twin-jet and then I finally went to work for the major until I retired.

 

All told, 17 years at the airline training level. I've taught ground school (before it was automated), recurrent training, CPT, Level D full flight sims and, way back in the day before level D sims, did actual aircraft training with the L-1011 Tristar when I worked for Lockheed. Back then each student pilot had to get 25 hours of aircraft flight training after their 12 simulator sessions. I'm one of the few instructors left who has worked for every airline manufacturer in the US (Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas and Boeing).

 

The MD-90 had glass but it was not full glass like the 737NGX. The B-717 had full glass but it wasn't as well designed as the NGX. The MD-90 had a climb thrust light/button so the procedure was to call for and select climb thrust at 1500' agl. I'm still a little lost in the NGX because while I did read somewhere the climb thrust is set automatically, I don't know where that visual cue is? Is the only cue on the N1 gauge when you see it reduce?

 

I *am* using the FMC for the TO and Climb thrust settings.

 

@scandinavian13 - Thank you for your detailed explanations and suggestions on looking at tutorials and other training material. You are polite and have tact in getting your points across. And most of all, thank you for your patience with us newbies!

 

 

I'm still a little lost in the NGX because while I did read somewhere the climb thrust is set automatically, I don't know where that visual cue is? Is the only cue on the N1 gauge when you see it reduce?

 

Unlike Kyle, I believe that the regime will change... going from TO to CLB (there is your cue) at 1500ft (the default default reduction altitude). Regardless of what you do or don't set up in the box. I'll have to take the books out to confirm though.

On Classics you used to have to do that by pushing the N1 button. Or so I am told by the guys who flew them.

 

 

@scandinavian13 - Thank you for your detailed explanations and suggestions on looking at tutorials and other training material. You are polite and have tact in getting your points across. And most of all, thank you for your patience with us newbies!

Hear,Hear for Kyle.He has always been a beacon for newbies and the savvy ones too.

 

 

I'm not using any NADP for my flight. I'm using normal TO thrust and normal Climb thrust.

 

NADP is "noise abatement departure procedure."  It's not something that you select in an aircraft.  You asked when people transition from TO to climb thrust.  A lot of operators us NADP profiles as a basis for their SOPs when it comes to thrust reduction altitudes.

 

So, sure, you might not be using NADP, but what else are you using for when you reduce from TO to climb thrust?  You asked us, I gave you an answer: usually NADP 1 or 2 (or some variation thereto, but I didn't want to add unnecessary levels of confusion on an already pretty complex discussion).  Here's a nice resource explaining both:

http://www.b737mrg.net/downloads/b737mrg_noise.pdf

 

It has you reducing to CLB at 800 feet (NADP 1 and 2).

 

 

 

I'm still a little lost in the NGX because while I did read somewhere the climb thrust is set automatically, I don't know where that visual cue is? Is the only cue on the N1 gauge when you see it reduce?

 

Visual and audible:

-Audible reduction in engine noise

-Visual cue in change in N1

-Visual cue in changed annunciation from T/O, T/O-1, or T/O-2 changing to CLB, CLB-1, or CLB-2.

 

You can see the thrust annunciation in between the two N1 gauges, slightly above it ("CLB" in this image):

Yep...I see it now...CLB above the N1 gaugaes...I guess my sound wasn't high enough to hear the reduction...I've turned it up...thanks...

 

 

while I *can* enable Heading Select on the ground, is that the generally accepted practice? Or should I press it after take off, like at 400' agl?

Actually, standard Boeing SOP is not to select HDG SEL on the ground, but to select it at or above 400'. Some aircraft are fitted with automatic engagement of HDG SEL at 400' if LNAV was not armed on the ground.

 

Boeing is not 100% (actually not even 10%) clear on why HDG SEL should not be selected on the ground, but either way they don't document HDG SEL behavior below 400'. Boeing does say that aircraft fitted with the automatic HDG SEL engagement at 400', the selected heading should be runway track. Perhaps, and I am guessing here, to guard against unwanted and potentially dangerous turns in case of related system malfunctions, such as the RAD ALT.

You can simply hit N1 to go to climb thrust. At least you can with FMC U10.7. I don't think U10.8a is different in that regard.

The auto-climb thrust is kicking at 1500 feet on its own and now that I know how to monitor for that to verify it, I don't need to have to manually press N1 (like I am used to doing from my MD-90 level D sim days)...however, its still good to know in the event climb doesn't kick in at 1500 feet, I can always do it manually...thanks...