My Time in a 777-200 Sim

[paulyg123 135]

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I spent 5 hours in a full motion sim with another PMDG 777 pilot.  As we already know the PMDG is so remarkable ands so close reality.  If you know your 777 sim, you'll have no problem managing the 777 full motion sim. Yeah, the feel is different, but it really proves that our sim can prepare you very well.

 

I did a cold dark start from a gate at KJFK,  taxied and flew a short flight to KEWR 22L.  I nailed that landing, taxied to 4L and flew the VOR 13L back to KJFK.  That's a tough approach, but I did it 100's of times and I was prepared and stuck that landing as well.  We then flew to KBOS with 1/2 mile visibility and 400 ft ceiling and did an ILS approach on 4R.  I hand flew the entire approach and also nailed the landing.  I also did a 12 KT crosswind landing .  We did do an auto-land with go around and then an auto-land to a full stop (with 15 kt cross wind) -  really cool.

 

The instructor taught me some stuff regarding how to work as a team.  Since most of us fly alone in the sim ,(and I hand fly 99% of the time - no auto-throttles or AP),  I was out of  sync with having the PNF handling his responsibilities.  But over time we got much better at that.  BTW, you can't stop the 777-200 on a dime (topic I started), but I guess that is a FSX flaw.  But basically I really appreciate how exact our 777 is and is far cheaper than the $1000 I spend in those 5 hours.  Here's a photo of my mug in the sim (just finished a round of golf in sunny Florida).

 

 

 

 

 

[Alpha Floor 237]

Very nice! And $1000 isn't bad at all, it's actually pretty "cheap" for 5 hours in a full-motion sim.

 

Just curious, what did the instructor comment on your performance? Was he impressed?

 

I had the chance to fly a full motion 747-400 sim at Heathrow some years ago. Thanks to the wonderful PMDG 744 and my many hours of flightsim practice, I did it pretty well. I didn't have 5 hours, but enough time to practice a crosswind approach, a low visibility approach and an engine-out approach (fully manual and raw data every time). The instructor was pretty impressed, he said in a real life situation I'd be able to do it.

 

In some aspects it's really much easier in the real thing as compared to the sim, for instance, moving around in the cockpit, touching things, using the FMC, the overhead etc... The sim tends to make your life more difficult in those regards. 

 

What I found to be more difficult was taxiing and ground movement in general. If you aren't careful during the landing rollout you might end up in the grass, awkward, even more so after a perfect landing. Also, I remember thinking the aircraft didn't "brake". I think every aircraft in FS has over-powered brakes, you can't stop a 747 in 1000 feet of runway...

 

And what I considered to be of "neutral" difficulty comparing sim and real life was maneuvering the aircraft in the sky, turning, climbing. In short: flying. Of course the controls in the sim have nothing to do with the real plane (at least for the vast majority of simmers who don't have fancy controls, me included), BUT, you get used to the feeling almost instantly. It's like driving a new car. Every time you drive a new car the wheel has a different feel, toughness, range etc, but when you start driving it you instantly adapt to the wheel and learn very fast how much control input is required for the desired output, hopefully you wont crash at the first turn because you were used to your old car . So that's why I don't think handling the real plane is any more difficult then the sim plane, it's just different. That said, the "pleasure" of flying the real thing is really top-notch, it's like driving a Mercedes, the controls just respond so "elegantly" and gently.

 

Flying the big jets is all about energy management and being ahead of the aircraft. Where you really must show off your "real" flying skills is in general aviation aircraft. 

[EGLL77W 1,508]

That's excellent!! I got the chance to land one last week after being invited to watch a crew rename it to the "sweat box"  :lol: I found it didn't really feel incredibly different to the piper I learnt to fly in real world - just feels heavy and requires less input than I realised. Flies beautifully!! What I also found kind of cool is how engaging reverse thrust on landing came so naturally - one of the things you just do and don't even think about I guess! 

 

[willywonka 36]

How heavy was the control column? Does it require a lot of force and effort to move it around? Does it have a heavy self-centering force?

[EGLL77W 1,508]

How heavy was the control column? Does it require a lot of force and effort to move it around? Does it have a heavy self-centering force?

 

Erm... heavier than a Piper? ha. That all will depend on your own personal strength I guess! It was heavier than I thought and than it looks - but I'm sure after an hour or so hand flying you won't think much of it. Flaring I found was easier in that sim than FSX - however that's probably just my joystick  :lol:  You don't need to apply much pressure - small movements go a long way. Trims really well too! 

[FLEX1978 373]

Very nice post Paul!  Regarding the T7 stopping distance,  take a look at this http://secure.simmarket.com/fsps-sim-physics-x.phtml

 

sorts out the braking system on the T7 in various weather conditions, I wouldn't fly the 777 without it.  Also has a bunch of other cool features.  Works over a network to.

 

Did you do a V1 cut without TAC? Lot's of fun

 

Regards

[Lashrathius 49]

Oh you two lucky guys, making me jealous. :mad: Wish I had a chance to fly the full motion 777 at Toronto. I've only had a chance to fly the A320 since my project involves coding Airbus avionics for cockpit builders. I guess I'll have to wait for the Boeings.

[NGXfanatic 85]

 Wish I had a chance to fly the full motion 777 at Toronto.

Have you been seeing the Flight 370 news on CNN lately?   Martin Savidge has run a few segments with himself and an instructor in a full motion 777 sim near Toronto, in Mississauga, could this be the same facility?

[pinlifter 502]

I just checked out the uFly website for their Toronto 777 simulator AJ and they actually have a special going on now.  $149 per hour or 4 hours for $479.  I thought it would be in the four figure range.  I may have to let my wife know I want something else for an anniversary gift now :lol:

[paulyg123 135]

A few questions I need to answer:

 

The flight controls are have a smooth hydraulic feeling - a little force required.

Nothing like the 737NG I flew last year.  If the 737 is out of trim you struggle with the yoke.  The 777 trims itself - except if you change speed you may need to adjust.

The 777-200 was MUCH easier to fly than the 737-800 in my opinion.  (Bo - tell them - how was my landings??)

 

The instructor was impressed and told me I has excellent skills.  Using the Flight Director and A/T makes it very easy to fly.  When I fly at home, I manually control the air-speed.  In my many times in the sim - I realize this is not realistic.   You really should use A/T and autobrakes.

 

The $1000 was for 2 hours - the other member Bo paid the same for another 2  hours (So I did 2+ in the left seat and 2+ in the right seat.)- the instructor let us stay an extra hour for free.)

 

The facility I eused was in Miami.   This is a major facility - each sim costs >$15,000,000.    I need to check if the UFly in Toronto is the same - but for $149?hour - I'll head north.

 

But once again, thanks to the great PMDG - I was greatly prepared to take on thois challenge.  If I was only FSX proficient (no PMDG pro) I guarantee I would have crashed every time.

[Alpha Floor 237]

If I was only FSX proficient (no PMDG pro) I guarantee I would have crashed every time.

 

Exactly. That's because PMDG aircraft are "stand-alone" products. FSX is really only a "flight operating system" and each add-on aircraft is a "program" you install onto your OS. That's how I see it

 

The limitations on PMDG aircraft are almost always due to the limitations on FSX itself :(

 

(maybe one day they decide to make their own flight simulating platform, that would be just great, just sayin...)

[Lashrathius 49]

Have you been seeing the Flight 370 news on CNN lately?   Martin Savidge has run a few segments with himself and an instructor in a full motion 777 sim near Toronto, in Mississauga, could this be the same facility?

 

I'm not sure if it's the same facility since I know there are more than 1 full motion facilities in Toronto. I did the A320 in Vancouver, where I live, so I don't know if the Air Canada facility in Toronto is where Savidge did his.

[asadkamal 1]

The ufly sim is a fixed base non motion sim. It's pretty good though.

[willywonka 36]

Erm... heavier than a Piper? ha. That all will depend on your own personal strength I guess! It was heavier than I thought and than it looks - but I'm sure after an hour or so hand flying you won't think much of it. Flaring I found was easier in that sim than FSX - however that's probably just my joystick  :lol:  You don't need to apply much pressure - small movements go a long way. Trims really well too! 

 

 

A few questions I need to answer:

 

The flight controls are have a smooth hydraulic feeling - a little force required.

Thanks. I thought it would be so, but never got my hands on a Boeing yoke before. I've been tweaking my yoke at home for years to match various description of forces. :mellow:

[BoHappy 12]

hi all

 

i was the other person that shared this sim experience

it was fantastic

 

Paul did a great job landing the plane

he did mostly hand flying although this plane was not meant to hand fly but rather fly mostly autopilot

 

the yoke in this sim was very heavy and had about a 25-35 lb torque on it just like the F15 - even though they are fly by wire the feedback is very strong and heavy

once trimmed the plane is very stable without autopilot or any yoke inputs

 

all in all it was a great experience - i even brought my 9 year old son and he landed the plane with Paul's instructions and my little assistance with the yoke