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captain420

How to fix this OSM problem in X-Plane?

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The 2 arrows that are pointing to the 2 large areas of water are suppose to be a large park filled with trees. I'm assuming that the OSM data for this area has been improperly tagged. I would like to fix this ASAP, so whats the best way I can go about doing this? Should i go the the openstreetmap sight and make the correction there so that all future OSM data will show up correctly in the sim? But if I do it that way, I won't be able to see the changes immediately and would have to wait for simheaven or X-Plane developers to add it, am I correct?

 

777_300_v10_81.jpg
 
Should be this.
 
map.jpg
 

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Objects are close than they appear. Looks realistic to me considering the distance of view.

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Those areas of land are drainage basins, and are tagged as such in OpenStreetMaps. Unfortunately, it would appear that X-Plane's scenery tools is capturing this data and reflecting it as water. We should never change OSM tags to reflect what we want to see, especially in an external program such as X-Plane. It's not good form to do so.

 

The data being served by OSM is actually correct, and in most other situations the fact it's tagged as a basin wouldn't be an issue.... but since X-Plane translates this tag into water, these large basins which are usually bone dry are showing up as lakes.

 

It's a tough one, but I would recommend not adjusting the OSM data.

 

-Greg

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So you guys recommend me leaving this alone then? Kind of hard to ignore this, since I've driven by the area numerous times and its a large park full of trees. :(

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Looks like a similar problem to Botany Bay in Sydney Australia next to YSSY. Only difference is it's actually the opposite where a whole area of water has been converted to dry land covered in trees.

 

I think LR are addressing areas such as this in future updates after 10.30 such as 10.35 etc.

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Really, I hope so. It's been bugging me. Since this is such a large body that I always see it when I'm flying around the city.

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Greg is correct, we should never alter the data in OSM to suit another program such as X-Plane or World2XPlane. Obviously, if you find something completely wrong or incorrectly tagged then it's fine to alter it, but there have been some cases where people are altering things just so they show up as a different colour on the map renderer.

 

The problem is that drainage basins in OSM have been converted in the default scenery generator into water. Have you tried AlpilotX's HD Mesh v2 for the area, perhaps he's already fixed this and makes better use of the tags? http://www.alpilotx.net. If it's a park area, then you can always add additional tags to it, such as tagging it as a park.

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Yes I believe so, I am already using HD Mesh v2. So all I would have to do to fix this is go to openscenerymap website and tag it as a park?

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So all I would have to do to fix this is go to openscenerymap website and tag it as a park?

 

I don't know how the internal scenery tools work at Laminar Research and what tags they use, but if the area is a park, then there is no harm tagging it as such as then maybe next time the scenery is cut it will be a park and not water. Also, perhaps send a bug report to Laminar Research with your findings and they can "fill-the-hole" :smile:

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OK, confirmed ... indeed this is still in HD Mesh Scenery v2, and the reason is, that at that time (and even 3 months ago - my last OSM import) the area was obviously tagged as "landuse=basin" .... thats why it was turned into a lake (as you see, its nothing personal just pure algorithms doing their job :lol: ).

 

BUT, if I now look at that lake, the obviously someone has already "played" around with the are (history tells, about a month ago) as it now has different tags like

 

Basin=detention, landcover=trees, leisure=park

 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/126146360

 

So, if this doesn't changes until autumn, then it will be fixed in the next iteration of the HD Mesh Scenery (this is not a promise, but at least I have plans to do  a re-cut sometimes later this autumn).


I don't know how the internal scenery tools work at Laminar Research and what tags they use, but if the area is a park, then there is no harm tagging it as such as then maybe next time the scenery is cut it will be a park and not water.

Well, no real magic the Tony ... As I already described in my post above, it were the tags (at the time the HD Mesh v2 was cut), which clearly told, that this area shoul become a lake. Now (as of today), that tags are much different in OSM, and those would definitely prevent turning the area into a lake. Simple as that.

 

Also, perhaps send a bug report to Laminar Research with your findings and they can "fill-the-hole" :smile:

And no, bug reports like that usually lead nowhere as we - usually - do not mess with the data on user request (like: "please fill that hole" ... no we do not do that ... we always recommend to fix the source data if possible ... which has already happened now).

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thanks for chiming in Andras, so I guess someone else already retagged this as a park? All I have to do is wait for the next recut?

 

If so I guess my work is done, and I just have to wait. :)

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thanks for chiming in Andras, so I guess someone else already retagged this as a park? All I have to do is wait for the next recut?

 

If so I guess my work is done, and I just have to wait. :)

Yes, thats how it is ... and og course, hope that someone else doesn't re-tags it again :lol: shortly before I pull the data for the next relese ...

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And no, bug reports like that usually lead nowhere as we - usually - do not mess with the data on user request (like: "please fill that hole" ... no we do not do that ... we always recommend to fix the source data if possible ... which has already happened now).

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for LR to fix the data in OSM. What I meant was that if you believe that a certain grouping of tags should produce a desired effect, e.g. Using a basin with an additional park tag, then perhaps support could be put into the scenery tools to support this. But, this is impossible to get right I think, since there are so many different ways to tag things that there will always be errors or unresolvable issues until OSM becomes more standardised

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Sorry, I didn't mean for LR to fix the data in OSM. What I meant was that if you believe that a certain grouping of tags should produce a desired effect, e.g. Using a basin with an additional park tag, then perhaps support could be put into the scenery tools to support this. But, this is impossible to get right I think, since there are so many different ways to tag things that there will always be errors or unresolvable issues until OSM becomes more standardised

Yes ... that is correct. The OSM tags can be a nightmare. I have spent quite some time to make the filtering (how I filter / translate OSM features to some X-Plane features) halfway sane. And at least in 99% of the cases it should be OK now ... but even a few (of those remaining 1%) incorrectly (or lets say: "creatively" :rolleyes: ) tagged features can mess up a lot of scenery (if such a feature tends to be a big lake or forest or what ever).

 

So, in the end we have to accept, that we can NEVER have it 100% perfect :P  .... but at least we can work on it (and with an open database like OSM, the users can - finally - help in this process too).

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And if it REALLY bugs you you could make a little "fantasy airport" in that area with WED, placing an invisible helipad, for example and then covering the area with grass-taxiway and trees.

 

Just don´t upload this airport, keep it to yourself and once the area is fixed, erase it again.

 

Jan

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And if it REALLY bugs you you could make a little "fantasy airport" in that area with WED, placing an invisible helipad, for example and then covering the area with grass-taxiway and trees.

 

That's a great idea. You could also use marginal's overlay editor, and place a huge taxiway/apron over it, and then put a forest on the top of it. It will temporarily fill the hole in, and it's easier in OverLayEditor as you can see photo imagery from Bing

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