Simmers,

 

I've been doing a bit of searching (to no avail) regarding RNAV STAR's (and SID's/airways, for that matter). The issue being that they don't seem available by means of the FMC or PFPX. I've gone into the SIDSTARS files for the airports I'm trying to fly into, and I can't see the procedures there either. Now evidently this suggests that RNAV STAR's and SID's aren't part of Navigraph cycles. What I'm wondering, though, is how to use them should that be the case. Do the waypoints need to be programmed automatically, or is there a way to load and select RNAV SID's and STAR's (as well as Q and T airways)? Programming regular procedures is fine, but it's just this.

 

Thanks for any and all help,

 

Derek

I've flown a lot of RNAV SIDs and STARs with PMDG aircraft, and those procedures were provided by Navigraph. If you name a few you can't find, I'll have a look in my files.

The one I was looking for was DEBBB1 at KDFW.

I have that STAR both in the SIDSTAR file for KDFW and in PFPX. Which AIRAC version do you have?

The one I was looking for was DEBBB1 at KDFW.

 

Hi, Derek,

 

As Mark said, there are many, many RNAV SIDs & STARs available in the PMDG database from Navigraph (and presumably for PFPX, which I don't have).

 

The DEBBB1 RNAV Arrival for KDFW is certainly in the PMDG database, in the FSX/PMDG/SIDSTARS/kdfw.txt file.  It is not available for all runways, only 13R, 17C/R & 18 L/R.  The data in that file is only available for those runways, and this corresponds to the current DEBBB1 arrival chart on flightaware.com

 

So: a couple of questions:

 

1) Are you selecting a different runway than one for which DEBBB1 is available?  It's good practice to select the runway and then the star, but if you select a runway for which DEBBB1 is not available, it won't show up on the CDU screen.

 

2) What airac are you using?  If it is an old one that arrival might not have existed then.

 

Mike

I am selecting the ILS for 18R, so it should show up for that regard. As for AIRAC, I believe I'm on 1306 - is that current enough?

I believe DEBBB1 was introduced in AIRAC 1311.

Derek also asked about Q and T airways. Does Navigraph contain any of these? Where in the world are these routes defined? Does PFPX use them?

Any help is much appreciated.

Cheers, Richard

Yes, Navigraph contains Q and T airways, and PFPX uses them.

 

 

I am selecting the ILS for 18R, so it should show up for that regard. As for AIRAC, I believe I'm on 1306 - is that current enough?

 

Hi, Derek,

 

I don't know when it first appeared, but you can look in the kdfw file in FSX>PMDG>SIDSTARS by opening it with notepad.  Just search DEBBB3.  Here is the beginning of the entry for 13R: "STAR DEBBB1.13R FIX DEBBB AT OR BELOW 11000".  The entries are surprisingly readable. 

 

I don't purchase every new Airac from Navigraph, just once every 3-4 months.  Seems to keep me reasonably up to date.

 

Mike

 

 

I believe I'm on 1306 - is that current enough?

1411 is the current cycle. There were a lot of deletions, additions, and revisions to STARS at KDFW about 3 months ago. 1306 is not even close to being current enough.

Derek,

 

The DEBBB One RNAV STAR was released with the 25 Sept AIRAC cycle as part of a major change affecting the DFW/DAL/satellite airports.  This is one of the 30 "Metroplex" previously known as "Optimization of Airspace and Procedures in the Metroplex (OAPM)" projects underway in the NAS.

 

Terminal procedures (IAPs, SIDs, and STARs) along with routes constantly change and are updated on an organized 28 day cycle, known as the AIRAC cycle.  That way, in theory at least, all airspace and procedure changes occur at the same time so that pilots and ATC know what to expect. In theory, at least! ^_^

 

If this were the "real airplane", the pilot is not permitted to manually construct an RNAV SID or RNAV STAR, or for that matter any terminal procedure.  They must be extracted in full from the database.  Nasty things can happen if the pilot attempts to build the procedure on their own.  This being a simulator, you could string together a set of waypoints forming track-to-fix (TF) legs, but would not be able to construct conditional waypoints, for example the heading-to-manual termination (VM) leg that ends many STARs or the heading-to-altitude (VA) leg that begins most SIDs.

 

I know that this is hobby for most, but to really gain the benefit and the full flavor of PMDG's excellent products, it is worthwhile to sign up for AIRAC cycle updates through Navigraph or Aerosoft's NavDataPro.  I have been using NavDataPro for about two years now and absolutely love it. All the databases in each of my airplanes and in PFPX are updated every 28 days.  The cost is nominal for the updates.  When I used Navigraph, I did not update every cycle, but only when needed like a major update to airspace.  It is a cost effective solution for those on a more limited budget.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rich Boll

Wichita KS

"Q" and "T" routes are RNAV routes.  They are used in the US and in Canada.  Q routes are high altitude (above FL180) RNAV airways that are being used to connect major city pairs between RNAV SID and RNAV STAR exit/entry points.  T routes are low altitude RNAV airways.  Many overlie existing Victor routes; however, some are put in place to provide efficient routing through or around major metroplex airspace (e.g. ATL).  They go places that the VOR airways do not support.

 

As we draw down the VORs in the US to 1960's levels by 2020, the number of Q and T routes will grow. Speaking of airspace changes, there is another major change occurring Nov 23 in the northeast US and in the Windsor, Toronto, & Montreal corridor that will result in new Q and T routes along the decommissioning of major V and J routes in this airspace.

 

Best regards,

 

Rich Boll

 

 

"Q" and "T" routes are RNAV routes.

That is interesting about Q routes. I never knew what they were - just used them. The routes I use come from Flightaware. I copy/paste the route into PFPX and build it for export. I have noticed a lot of routes between KSEA-KLAX use Q routes mixed with J routes. The Q routes seem to be more prevalent on the west coast when compared to the east coast.

...and then add in that NRS Waypoints are also used and watch simmer heads explode 

 

What? You can do that without flying on official routes???

...and then add in that NRS Waypoints are also used

Those waypoints show up a lot in FDX routes. They are hard to spot on high altitude charts because the NRS waypoints are in a very lite blue. But once you figure out how the letters and numbers go together they are easy to find. See this https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/LID/L_W.htm.