Driver mis-match ... Texture_Bandwith_Mult ...

[N1G 88]

Yes, Bob - the INTERNAL limiter must be set. NVI controls the FPS outside of P3D. SO, if you had NVI set to 30 and P3D set unlimited - TBM function would not work.

 

 

Vic

 

Thanks Vic - appreciate it. I just wish the tweaks would stop. This is killing me lol. I just cannot resist.

[SKEWR 364]

 

 

EDIT: That reminds me, I need to update my web site showing those settings

Hello;

Is this site public? If so are there tips on how to setup P3D? I've had poor performance on the sim and I'm willing to try more things to get flyable results.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Is this site public?

 

My site is public yes ... however AVSIM has it's own tips and tricks section for P3D.

 

I "was" going to put together some information on my web site from the last 14 months or using P3D v2.x, but AVSIM is probably the better spot for it.  I don't have advertising revenue on my site so all the hits are pretty much wasted (in fact, I removed my hit counter because it would auto reset at 9999 hits, and it reset many many times now) ... and to be honest my sight just isn't that well organized.  Ironically my site auto renewed today at $180/yr.

 

My own take on what a "tips and tricks" page needs to be like:

 

1.  No search, people just don't search from within a web site -- they sometimes use Google to get to a web site, but that's it -- and yes, I'm guilty of not searching also and in long threads not many people are willing to navigate 10,20,30 pages deep to find that "gem" of information.

2.  It needs to be a single page and not too long otherwise people get lost.

3.  More complex tips need to link to a page but NO more than one link and one hop deep.

 

I have dropped what I consider significant comments in another thread about VAS and the quest for improved memory efficiency and the cost in CPU performance for having that VAS efficiency - actually ties into the claims/tests done with FSX:SE vs FSX where VAS usage is better in FSX:SE, but performance is lower (FPS).  

 

Good article here about costs of allocation/deallocation here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Optimizing_C%2B%2B/Code_optimization/Allocations_and_deallocations  and http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Optimizing_C%2B%2B/Writing_efficient_code/Performance_worsening_features

 

That's why I feel there are diminishing returns to pursuit of VAS improvements and hence my desire to see a 64bit product.  Sorta got side tracked here ... sorry.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[SKEWR 364]

Thank you for the response. I'll try the guide.

Will also look into the VAS thread you reference.

 

Sounds like you have a good idea of what the site should be. Good luck!

[gboz 157]

 

 

The algorithm is basically this:

TextureMaxLoad = max(TextureMaxLoad, TextureMaxLoad*TextureBandwidthMult/LimitedFramerate).



Thanks

Beau



Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Hmmm... what's the coma doing in that equation?

 

gb

[Guest]

Assuming Max is not overloaded then TextureMaxLoad will get the higher of the two values.  * / are equal order of precedence and hence get evaluated left to right  (see here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/ru-ru/subscriptions/2bxt6kc4%28v=vs.100%29.aspx)

 

Example 

 

TextureMaxLoad=6

TextureBandwidthMult = 160

LimitedFramerate = 30

 

So

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, (6*160)/30)

 

so

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, 960/30)

 

so

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, 32)

 

so 

TextureMaxLoad = 32

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT: as I understand it, you use one or the other, but not both  (TextureMaxLoad OR TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT) ... by default P3D adds TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT = 30 (clean install) with frame rate limited to 20

[Mickeyj 35]

Assuming Max is not overloaded then TextureMaxLoad will get the higher of the two values.  * / are equal order of precedence and hence get evaluated left to right  (see here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/ru-ru/subscriptions/2bxt6kc4%28v=vs.100%29.aspx)

 

Example 

 

TextureMaxLoad=6

TextureBandwidthMult = 160

LimitedFramerate = 30

 

So

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, (6*160)/30)

 

so

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, 960/30)

 

so

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, 32)

 

so 

TextureMaxLoad = 32

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT: as I understand it, you use one or the other, but not both  (TextureMaxLoad OR TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT) ... by default P3D adds TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT = 30 (clean install) with frame rate limited to 20

 

Hi Rob,

 

just for my understanding but isnt the Texture_Max_load=x for the texture size (512, 1024, 2048, 4096) ?

[Guest]

 

 

Texture_Max_load=x for the texture size (512, 1024, 2048, 4096)

 

Yes, but this is "TextureMaxLoad" ... no underscores ... the two have similar names but are very different.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Mickeyj 35]

Yes, but this is "TextureMaxLoad" ... no underscores ... the two have similar names but are very different.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Thanks, got it

[mhazy 0]

Hi

I will give you a way you cant fail to get better frame rate, works for anyone, cant fail

 

Ok im being a bit flippant, but I get frame rates of 70 plus all the time how??

 

I run prosim737 with a jetmax fds setup, so all I use to fly is the scenery for a outside view

Aircraft loaded is stock 737

Or in my case jetstream 737 , same thing modified

 

All other programs are on 2nd pc ie instruments etc

 

Ok I know its mega bucks, to do what ive done, and not practical for a lot of people, but running fullscreen with stock aircraft and instruments on 2nd pc gives you the flightsim of your dreams.

 

you can buy software, to run instruments quite cheap, like airmanager, and panel builder. Lets you run instruments for different aircraft, all you need then is a stock aircraft , and just outside view on prepar or fsx etc. You frame rates will be high and very smooth, by the way you can also run the second screen off your pc and still get very good results.

 

At the end of the day if you want a screen with a full vc and complicated aircraft with great visuals outside, then yes you are going to get problems.

 

Mhazy

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

TextureMaxLoad = Max(6, (6*160)/30)

 

 

For purposes of understanding this, it would be simpler to rewrite the equations as:

 

TextureMaxLoad_NEW = TextureMaxLoad_DEFAULT * Max(1, (TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULTIPLIER)/FRAME_RATE)

 

In this form, one sees that the ratio of TBM to FR is the important number. The default ratio is 30/20 = 1.50. Going to 160/30 increases the ratio to 5.33.

 

Do we know what the default value is for TextureMaxLoad? You used 6 in your example. Is that the default? It probably doesn't matter unless one is going to change TextureMaxLoad directly, instead of TBM. Also, does changing TextureMaxLoad directly work with an unlimited frame rate? I assume that it doesn't.

[Guest]

The default value for TextureMaxLoad is in the P3D learning center doc (Prepar3DLearningCenter.chm) ... the default value is 6 but does NOT exist in the Prepar3d.cfg in "normal" situations (i.e. you have to manually add it).

 

Don't confuse the lack of seeing it in the Prepar3D.cfg as not having a value.  So even if TextureMaxLoad is not listed in the Prepar3D.cfg, it will have a value of 6.

 

There is nothing to stop adding both entries (TextureMaxLoad and TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT) but I have no idea how that situation (both entries) operates internally ... so best approach (known) would be to use just the single entry TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT ... assuming of course UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT = something greater than 0.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Now my 40% increase was not accurate ... that was related to my driver mismatch which I have since resolved as it was causing other issues such as audio drop outs.  

 

Quoting myself because I don't want this to get lost in the thread.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Novation 534]

This stuff is very interesting, but I still see absolutely no change in changing these values - both TBM or TML - using the lowest, or highest values available, and this was the case with FSX too. Its disappointing that an entry in the cfg that sounds like it could be a useful tweak for either low-end or high-end systems, seems to have no affect at all, even though it seems it should be dramatic.

 

I always use an internal lock of 30fps so in theory these values should make an impact and it ought to be noticable.

[CordoganAir 55]

SO I've read through this whole thread and maybe it's just all the math that's causing my eyes to glaze over but bottom line what should we be setting

 

texture max load

 

Texture bandwidth multiplier

 

FIber Frame Time Fraction 

 

In sim frame limiter 

 

I understand that everyone's system is different but it would be nice to have a laymen's breakdown on how we should be setting these in the CFG Thanks!

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Rob,

 

Does this make any sense or am I deluding myself?

 

If "TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT" = 160

and LimitedFramerate = 30

 

Then, set "TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT" = 128

for a LimitedFramerate = 24

 

I say this because:

 

I have my in-simulator frame rate limited to 30.

 

I use the FSPS - P3D Fiber Accelerator Version 1.0 and set the targeted frame rate = 24fps. It achieves this pretty well (20-24) under a wide range of circumstances. Without it frame rates often drop into the high teens.

 

When I observe the Fiber Accelerator in action while P3D is running I note that from time to time it automatically changes the frame rate target from 24 to Unlimited and vice versa. This seems to ensure pretty smooth performance with minimal if any micro stuttering.

 

Following your post, I am now experimenting by changing the value of TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT to 128 and have the impression that fame rates are being maintained at slightly higher values whether running with a limit of 24 or Unlimited. Performance remains smooth. Perhaps oddly I didn't see much difference while using the value 160.

 

There have been many sniffy posts regarding the use of so-called ''weaker'' systems to run P3D. Hitherto I've been reluctant to resubmit my own experience as the likely responses are entirely predictable. I have always seen quite good results with my hardware setup along with decent settings in Prepar3D. So, I'm wondering how many disbelievers have actually seen P3D run on significantly lesser systems than their own - just a thought.

 

My system specs:  Alienware M18x: i7-2960 XM @ 2.70-4GHz, 20GB Crucial DDR3 1600, Dual GeForce GTX 580M in SLI** each with 2GB DDR5 (GeForce Drivers: ver.344.75 WHQL), 3072MB Paging File (initial and max)), Storage: 1xTB Crucial M550 SSD +  1x750GB Seagate Sata-300, Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1

 

**SLI Settings using NVIDIA Control Panel:

 

Antialiasing - Mode: Enhance the application setting

Antialiasing - Setting; 2x

Single display performance mode

Prefer maximum performance

Force alternate frame rendering 2

 

Apart from a few 3rd Party light aircraft (Alabeo, A2A and LM) the following are installed:

FTX Global Base
FTX Global Vector
FTX EU Scotland
FTX Global OpenLC Europe
FTX: NA Monument Valley
FTX: EU Norway
FS Global 2010 FTX Compatible

 

Now, I'm not saying that I can achieve good frame rates in every situation. Complex tube liners are a no-no and dense scenery areas such as certain airports are best avoided. I prefer to explore while flying VFR in light aircraft and use the following P3D settings:

 

 

REX4 TxD Texture Resolution: Low/High/Mid level clouds - 512 (Low Res)

REX4 TxD  Texture Compression: DXT5

REX Low Level Soft Clouds Replacement: Set 16

P3D: Cloud Coverage - Broken 7/8

 

Fiber Accelerator and NVIDIA Inspector:

While over Langley AFB

 

AND.... a few more images:

 

Prepar3D v2.4 is a great simulator and I hope I have demonstrated that it can run very nicely on a wide range of current hardware and certainly anything with a specification between and including mine and the currently available cutting edge stuff. There may be several contradictions in the content of this post but, heck, who really cares when the sim's performance appears to speak for itself!

 

Prepar3D v1.4 was also a good simulator (an optimized version of FSX) and I was seeing frame rates regularly hitting 50-60+ using only one GTX 580M.

 

Regards,

Mike