fsx-se FSX: Steam Edition... is it worth transferring yet?

[Screwbottle 4]

When you install the game it asks where you want to install it, by default it will be something like c:\program files(x86)\steam etc etc) Click this drop-down box, and choose where you want to install. You can move the install directory and steam will pick this up, this might help you https://support.stea...=7418-YUBN-8129

 

Hi CodeChris, I hear what you are presenting, but I still think you're not getting what I am trying to get across, maybe it's my way of presenting it. Steam install is a system, with many folders in it just to support the Steam client, and agreed one can install this by choice. Within that is the games folder <drive>\default or other folder of choice\Steam\SteamApps\common, and this is how Steam installs every game. Now if you tamper with this folder and move the games elsewhere, you will break the Steam app in locating your games. Maybe this is better explained.

 

There are many reasons as to why one would want to install in a custom location, such as FS9 and FSX not to be installed in any default locations for W7 and W8/8.1, and especially on the 64bit version. This is well documented all over the web, and found by many of us and passed on as knowledge, due to MS's way of virtualising the /Program Files (now the 64bit folder which was the old 32bit folder) and /Program File (x86) (the new 32bit folder, and now can you see the confusion). Many old 32bit apps are hard coded to accept the default location, or a custom location, but not using another /Program Files (x86), so when installed into the 64bit version of the /Program Files, all hell breaks loose. Microsoft by default tries to manage the installation of 32bit and 64bit apps, but as we all know things can and do go wrong.

 

I have eliminated 99% of my programs and flightsim issues by installing everything into a custom group folder, i.e. Applications, Graphics, Games, Multimedia, Utilities etc. and as is the case of my games, all in a Games folder on my D: drive. I know many will poer poer my ideas, but I have very little if any CTD's or blue screens today, having practiced this since Windows 98 and NT.

 

I am not trying to start a fight or argument or have insults directed at me, I am simply using my hopefully vast experience and passing it forward, in what I have learned and observed. Even with my statement of the modern generation being controlled, I was not trying to insult but stated a fact of what is happening to the human race with our devices and software. We cannot even hold decent conversations with each other face to face, and this gets worse when we use social media like this. And it's as though the internet and Google is god (lower case so as not to offend others, myself included) in what it spews out as fact, over tried and trusted, many hours of labour and love, methods.

 

"Edited for spelling and tense, sorry, all good now"

[codechris 9]

I think I understand what you mean now. So what you're talking about is not the fact you can install on to the default or on to any other drive, it's the fact that wherever you install games, it always put's it in the folders \SteamLibrary\steamapps\common

 

Which is an issue for anyone that wants to install on to c:\FSX d:\FSX or whereever. Right, now I understand what you mean. Yes that is annoying, I presume it's to keep consistency which makes it easy for Steam to keep the games up to do. I would imagine if you could install under any folder, this could break the update funciton, since the update function is one function that works across all games, no matter what their title. I can see why they would do it, otherwise they might have horrendous issues with updates. I don't put that down to control though, Steam win nothing with forcing you in to their folder structure, it must be because they have so many games, they need consistency and predictability.

 

Either way, that could be annoying to some, as yourself. I doubt many people care, so for Valve it's a mute point

[Screwbottle 4]

I will try to keep this short, to stick to the concept so the language barrier doesn't get in between me and you on the discussion, just in case i didn't express myself properly before.

 

1) Chris already replied you.

 

2) I can't say much since i have a working connection. However it makes sense in the way Steam tries to keep the games updated all the time. I do not see it as a big issue, in fact it's a good thing, but i can understand that a minory of players with bad or limited connections would be in trouble. But in this case, they should have informed themselves more about how Steam works. More so in your case, since you said before you already had other games in your Steam library.

 

3) My statement is moot, how exactly? Lots of addons for X-plane needs to be updated when a new patch comes out, same happens on Prepar3d, same happens with mods on DCS (of course it doesn't happen with the modules, since Eagle Dynamics is publishing their own addons on their own platform). We are spoiled in the form in which we consider addons as the stock FSX. But FSX on its own does not include addons, so it's fair to say that with the new patches FSX works (in the same way everything works on DCS). What doesn't work are addons (on FSX) and mods sometimes (on DCS).

I didn't insult you, i just don't find a reason to raise such a drama about Steam being controlling, and invited you to go play with consoles if you want to see, i believe so, a real controlled environment.

 

I also find really weird for someone with such experience as yourself to be living in a place so internet limited, but i guess it can happen.

1. Replied back

2. We have a wonderful new system in this country, under the new democracy since '94, called load shedding. The new status quo took over, and when '96 came up to plan our future water needs and power, it was decided to skip it, The 2010 World Cup came here, and instructions were given to keep the lights on at all costs, no matter what, trying to impress the world. This was the last straw that broke the camels back, and 21 years later since '94, we do not have enough of anything, all broken. Past it's sell by or replace by date, and way past it's maintenance date. And this load shedding affects all of us in this country at least once a day through out 2/3rd's of our country. So one expects at least 3 to 4 power cuts a week of up to four hours depending on the national grid strain, as it is rotated. So yes I would love to have a stable always on fast line. To answer other questions in another post, our affordable norm online speed is 4Mb/s with a 110GB usable data cap, costing us around R500.00 pm - $50.

 

To get back on topic, then they need to return the control to us, where we can bypass the update, no matter if we are online or offline, and resume it while we sleep or at work. I see a poster above is talking of Canada's new laws about autoupdates, so this could surely affect the way Steam works.

3. Moot as in we are all doing updates, if not with FSX core. So we are conditioned to doing regular updates, from our operating systems, where we can block, stop or postpone very easily, as I covered in my paragraph further, maybe again we are misinterpereting each other.

 

Ok, I take back what I said, again I have misread and misinterpreted your reply. I'm not raising drama, simply stating what happens with Steam like clients outside of the countries of milk and honey. I am experiencing this along with many of my friends, business clients etc. and I posted here. So either the owners of Steam (Valve) don't care for the other 1 to 10% value countries being forced to use their service, as we are just a drop in the ocean of their revenue stream. Allow us to put to text what our experiences are, and see how we all common in a hobby, battle that much more to enjoy it. I see a number of countries do not allow Steam games or other similiar systems into their country, without a standalone version available, and that is a fact, they allow their citizens choice.

 

As to your last statement and also see my reply to Ray, as I don't want to violate, be warned or banned for introducing politics, racism or whatever, as per AVSIM rules. This is my ancestral home, my great "how many knows" grandparents, came here from Ireland, Scotland and England, since the 1760's. I don't know your original nationality, but much like the immigrants into the US from many great European and British countries. We have proud and established roots here, and are very proud to be called South African, not white S.A., black S.A. coloured S.A. or Indian S.A., just South Africans. This was a very succesful country, with the second strongest currency in the world next to the British pound, during the '70s and '80's, and some of the highest quality minerals, produce and human capitol to offer. We fed Africa along with the old Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. Yes like nearly ALL countries in the world, we had (and still have even worse today) political and racist issues, which changed in '94 to benefit ALL. But sadly, we are but a ghost of what we could have been today, and have gone backwards by many years. And finally I am now 55, in the autumn of my career, very hard for me to enter other contries without being a burden on their tax system, medical and pension systems, or any resources. My brother and I of our generation, are the last in this country, the rest have either passed or moved to Canada, Britain, New Zealand and Australia. He has five children and two grandkids to now be with. He live's 1700KM's away from me.

 

So I stay, I have two succesful businesses in IT and Photography, which keep me enjoying my most important values of life, my lovely wife of 28 years, my mother in law (yes a great lady she is, no funny cracks or jokes here) and my four great kids with two grandkids, and then my hobbies of flight SIM's and photography. I could never leave this, unless I have the currency and the means to move them all. So we make the most of it, live for today, and enjoy each other. I also have great brothers in arms, from my previous military days and my membership of two great virtual aviation clubs.

 

There I've said enough now.

[masneoquil 66]

 

 

To get back on topic, then they need to return the control to us, where we can bypass the update, no matter if we are online or offline,

I don't know if you know this, but if you right click on any game you have the option to not to keep the game updated.

The only problem is that if this is the first time you're going to install the game it will always download the latest version.

[Screwbottle 4]

Oh no, the internet in South Africa is truly awful. Better now then a few years ago, but awful. A lot of it has to do with not enough undersea cables. If you look up a map of the undersea cables, Africa doesn't much much, especially South

Yeah, and the Sea cables are a joke in themselves. We know of around 8 to 10TB's per second available to us as a country, but no-one knows or can answer as to where it lands and is used. It has got better over the years, so-so and very slowly, but the mainstream of affordable internet to most today is 4Mb/s (512KB/s), with capping up to 100GB, costing around R500.00 pm ($50), and the SP's have the audacity to call this ultrafast internet. Uncapped ADSL is available for a bigger price tag, and forget uncapped mobile data, it does not exist, that is an area where we are royally screwed with exhorbitant pricing.There are changes afoot with privateers, and us the people standing up and fighting back, where we can now on average have 10Mb/s ADSL lines to our homes, with FTTH (Fibre To The Home) available, the catch line is they all cost and are too much in most cases, for the average middle working class, never mind the lower classes. This FTTH is currently for the affluent, and in test phase, and one has to have a community in excess of 100 homes signing up for the FTTH installation, before they will install. Average costs for the maximum speed of 100MB/s per month is R890.00 ($80) for a capped 100GB and R1500.00 ($140) for uncapped, a large monthly outlay, for the "luxury in our country" of true high speed internet.

I don't know if you know this, but if you right click on any game you have the option to not to keep the game updated.

The only problem is that if this is the first time you're going to install the game it will always download the latest version.

As all of my posts are trying to cover, there is always something that has to be done to Steam before XXXXXXXX can happen, no freedom, sorry. As you guys post replies as "fixes" it exposes more and more hindrances. I rest my case.

Well at least this forum has lit up and has had many repsonses, I think very good for this web site and the community.

[masneoquil 66]

 

 

there is always something that has to be done to Steam before XXXXXXXX can happen,

 

Yeah, it is called "Configuration". Sorry, but i don't understand what "freedom" you want. You have options. All of them have a default one that it is selected when you first install Steam. Then you can choose another one.

 

I understand you don't like it, but freedom in a PC depends on what a developer can and want to do.

[Screwbottle 4]

Yeah, it is called "Configuration". Sorry, but i don't understand what "freedom" you want. You have options. All of them have a default one that it is selected when you first install Steam. Then you can choose another one.

 

I understand you don't like it, but freedom in a PC depends on what a developer can and want to do.

But what a difference in configuration, which as I said hinders one to get the game started quickly and smoothly. Yes I am fully aware of "configuration" tweaking and tuning, but no other configuration in free standing games hinders me from starting it and seeing it running.

 

And correct I don't like it, or have to like it. Even when a developer can and wants to do something, we all know what will happen in the long run if it irritates consumers to the point of no puchase, it fails. So there has to be a happy medium of the door swinging both ways for developer and consumer to make for a succesful product and sale.

[tf51d 284]

I don't know if you know this, but if you right click on any game you have the option to not to keep the game updated.

The only problem is that if this is the first time you're going to install the game it will always download the latest version.

That's not exactly how it works. You have the option to update immediately, or when the game is launched, you can not prevent updates while on line.

[masneoquil 66]

That's not exactly how it works. You have the option to update immediately, or when the game is launched, you can not prevent updates while on line.

 

Yes, sorry. That's how it works. 

[AviatorMoser 353]

I think all you have to do is click "Go Offline...", and you don't have to worry about updates anymore.

[glenecho3 9]

I don't think I've seen another genre of computer software suffer from so much "fear of change" than users of MS Flightsim. What's all this talk about endless updates? 20 minutes of Steam updates? I've never had a Steam update that took more than a minute. Updates to FS itself? Still uncommon even on Steam but that can be DISABLED. It works in offline mode. 

 

I think the "afraid of change" types should at least come out and say "yeah...i just don't like change". Making up falsehoods in an attempt to scare people away from a product you are simply afraid of is crazy. The Steam client isn't invasive in any way, shape or form and many of it's features are amazing. In fact, I think you'll soon see, for better or worse, the Steam MSFS forum become THE most active Flightsim forum out there.

[codechris 9]

I think Screwbottle here does have a point, and one I'd never considered before; Steam does force you to update to play a game, even if you don't want to. For us in Europe, sections of Asia (Japan, South Korea etc) it doesn't matter; we have really fast, uncapped internet access. But for other places, Australia, large section of America, Asia etc, that is a problem. Imagine waiting 3 hours to play a game just because it has an update? That's very restrictive. Imagine if you go over your cap? Oh no, sorry, can't play the game till you've updated it, gone over your cap? Pay or wait till end of the month.

 

I owe Screwbottle an apology here, I've been a little heavy handed with my responses. That feature of steam, update or don't play, is really annoying for those in low bandwidth areas

[masneoquil 66]

That feature of steam, update or don't play, is really annoying for those in low bandwidth areas

 

Yeah, And now I realize my mistake is also a pain in the a... when the MOD you have installed stop working because of this update.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 for example.

[AviatorMoser 353]

I think Screwbottle here does have a point, and one I'd never considered before; Steam does force you to update to play a game, even if you don't want to. For us in Europe, sections of Asia (Japan, South Korea etc) it doesn't matter; we have really fast, uncapped internet access. But for other places, Australia, large section of America, Asia etc, that is a problem. Imagine waiting 3 hours to play a game just because it has an update? That's very restrictive. Imagine if you go over your cap? Oh no, sorry, can't play the game till you've updated it, gone over your cap? Pay or wait till end of the month.

 

I owe Screwbottle an apology here, I've been a little heavy handed with my responses. That feature of steam, update or don't play, is really annoying for those in low bandwidth areas

 

 

Yeah, And now I realize my mistake is also a pain in the a... when the MOD you have installed stop working because of this update.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 for example.

 

Again, if you run Steam in offline mode you don't have to update. Your Steam client has no way of knowing if an update comes out if you're offline. If your game was up to date when you switched to offline mode, you could theoretically play forever without ever downloading future updates.

 

Step 1:

 

Step 2:

[codechris 9]

This is true AviatorMoser and is an easy work around, but some would argue that this is overally heavy. I mean, lets say you connected to update a game, or play online, or et al; you forget, we are human, then logon again, oh, sorry, you must update in order to play. I fail to see the reason to force you to.

 

That being said, that's a steam issue, not an FSX or even Dove Tail issue. DT have no control over this

Yeah, And now I realize my mistake is also a pain in the a... when the MOD you have installed stop working because of this update.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 for example.

 

You can get round this with ETS, by joining the beta platform, and downgrading to the earlier version. SCS Software are very good at that, actually. They know how important mods are, so allow you to downgrade easily till mods are fixed. That is a credit to SCS