http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/06/20/w...t.ap/index.htmlI'm really wondering how this happens in a plane like the A319 where the correct runway is displayed in perfect position on the ND screen. These two pilots have probably lost their careers...

I couldn't help but laugh. Even with the most sohpisticated gadets in the cockpit pilots still don't make there landing fields hehe.

I feel bad for the pilots, work so hard to get where their at and now they make a mistake that potentially cost them their careers. :-(Andrew

>I feel bad for the pilots, work so hard to get where their at>and now they make a mistake that potentially cost them their>careers. :-(>AndrewNo sense in feeling bad for them. Stupidity is natures way of getting rid of stupid people. What if they had flow their a/c into a hill short of the runway? Would we still feel sorry for them?

Reminds me of the Continental Airlines a couple of years back that landed at a closed airfield.

This whole thing looks strange when the following are considered. Granted, I'm no pilot and I'm basing my observations strictly upon FS9 information.1) Ellsworth ILS frequency 110.3 for runway 31 [309 degrees] Rapid City ILS 109.3 for runway 32 [321 degrees]2) Ellsworth has single runway of 13,486 feet Rapid City has a main runway of 8,697 feet plus a cross wind runwayWhile there are "only" 12 degrees approximately, between these main runways, that translates into quite a spread the further out the plane is. How in the world could they have been lined up on the wrong approach? It would take a conspiracy between crew and ATC, I should think, even if the crew had missed dialing the ILS freq by the one digit.In spite of their proximity to each other, wouldn't these two airports appear quite differently on GPS display screen due to their quite different layout?Can we presume to rule out a mechanical issue since an alternate crew was eventually able to depart for the correct destination?Finally, it seems that although the crew failed to get into KRAP on their first attempt, they may well be deep in it now!!

Just another example of "Northworst Airlines". I'm thankful I don't live in a city like MSP or Detroit where I'd have to fly with them. They completely screwed up the only trip I've taken to Europe, and I still haven't forgiven them for that. Then there was that absurd "editorial" that their CEO wrote in their in-flight mag stating that general aviation was getting a free financial ride at their expense. What a crock. Thankfully, AOPA's Phil Boyer immediately called BS on that little piece of National Enquirer-style writing.

I take it this wasn't an ILS landing ?EDIT: Ahh, unless the wrong ILS frequency had been selected. Mind you, if that was the case, then it equates with very sloppy preflight planning. I mean, surely all pilots are aware of the ILS, tower, ground....blah blah blah.....frequencies before they even board the plane ?Chris Low.

These are all great examples of why we should not feel sorry for these guys. Sure they worked hard to get where they were, but apparently not hard enough. Luckily this was a mistake that everyone walked away from.

One of those look-in-the-mirror events. Flying has a way of humbling you if you get comfortable. Everyone is asking "How could a crew and a highly automated jet under care of ATC (FAA/USAF) do this...?"ATC out in that area as far as approach is concerned is run by the USAF-though I haven't been through there in ages-though I bet the local controllers at KRAP were looking for them unless they were busy with other traffic....there is that void when turned over from approach to tower.As far as "being lined up on final" like the wonderful MSFS controllers do -- normally on a "small" field like KRAP they'll turn you loose to fly the "visual" like anybody else unless there is a company rule/reg, traffic requiring the gymnastics for the approach. Why they didn't at least have monitored the approach up in their NAV-Displays is not healthy to ones career. They may have even been just cleared to the airport, plugged it into the FMS and set the chain in motion. "Look, a big airport...."One of those head-up-and-locked errors. The FO or Captain sees a field, calls the field and slips into that "comfort-zone" of programmed responses. No excuse for it but, as they showed, it does happen. It is like pulling into your garage-you've done it 1000 times but then one day your a tad off because you weren't paying attention and scraaaape. And sometimes the automation of the new aircraft add to that feeling of comfort-pilots are much better fliers than system monitors.No matter how much human-factoring in put into SMAC and SOP the crew will find unique and interesting ways to screw it up. CRM is an art, not a science. It isn't the airline but the circumstances the crew finds themselves in mentally at that given moment. Northwest nor 99% of their employees did not want that plane to land at the AFB(ok, maybe the two guys next on the furlough recall list....) , the crew didn't want the plane to land at that AFB and in their mind they weren't.There will be a few investigations on what went on. The tapes will be pulled, interviews and questions asked. Crew will be delt-with and lessons learned. Till then most pilot will shrug their shoulders and silently thank God it wasn't them.It is an unusual event but not unique. Frontier(the Original), United and a host of others have made un-scheduled arrivals in the long history of jets.Tim757 (looking at the garage a tad different when I go home)

"Till then most pilot will shrug their shoulders and silently thank God it wasn't them."Roger that!GregP.S. And there's a reason I don't keep alot of chunk in my garage... just my truck and a few (small) odds n' ends. :-)

Screwed by the military again:-lol

It's not surprising that many approach plates from around the world warn you not mistake something else for the airport. "Do not mistake Le Bourget for Charles de Gaulle" (from LFPG approach plate), "Motorway running almost parallel with RWY 10/28, 0.6 NM to South of RWY" (from EIDW approach plate), "During winter season test facility for motorcars on icetrack 3

You're not mistaken. www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/books/WBAbook/Chap2.ps+northwest+wrong+airport+brussels&hl=enBrussels ATC alleged that Shannon ATC entered an incorrect code in the aircraft's ARC flight-plan data, redesignating the aircraft's destination to Brussels. The Irish Aviaton Authority denied thissaying they passed along the Frankfurt destination to London ATCC, the last center before Brussels.However it happened, London ATCC cleared the plane, which was travelling at FL 370, to descend to FL 240 and to contact Brussels. The crew began the descent, and contacted Brussels- but addressing the controller as "Frankfurt," announcing landing intentions. Brussels did not point out the addressing error, which CONTINUED ON SUBSEQUENT TRNSMISSIONS!The following is taken directly from the report at the above link:"Brussels approach instructed the crew to descend in-bound via Bruno, a VOR navigation beacon on one of the standard approaches to Brussels Airport. The crew had to ask ATC for the VOR's frequency. The aircraft was subsequently cleared for an instrument-landing system (ILS) approach to Brussels's runway 25L, which is the same runway orientation as at Frankfurt, but with different ILS frequencies.At some point the crew finally realised they were landing at the wrong airport and opted to continue the landing for safety reasons, says Northwest. The airline has said that, whatever errors ATC may have made, if any, the crew must "share responsibility" for what happened."It's hard to imagine plausible answers to any questions that might be posed.Alex M.

holy KRAP!:)