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mpanis

Missing leg speeds and altitudes

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Hello everybody

 

i would really appreciate your help, in this one. I recently purchased pro atc and lately, after enough simming years i started entering the stars and star transitions etc in the fmc while on flight, as soon as pro atc gives me my needed info. The problem is that, while still on ground, after finishing with my flight plan (everything except the star entry as stated before), my PERF page, FUEL quantities, FORECASTS etc everything is ok except the fact that the legs after exiting the sid have no speeds and altitudes. The fmc only keeps the speeds and altitudes of the sid. As soon as i enter a star and a landing runway everything gets filled up nicely. I dont think thats right though because as we all know real life piloting needs the star to be entered before the leg connecting with the star is reached and of course after the atc gives the proper instructions. I will give you an example, which was the first one to realize something like that, but keep in mind that i tested at least 2 more flight plans with the same oservations.

 

EGKK (Gatwick)-EHAM (Amsterdam)

 

RW26L to depart from

 

Flight Plan: EGKK DCT ADMAG UY312 DVR DCT SUMUM DCT REDFA EHAM

SID: ADMA1X

Cruising altitude:FL280

Cost Index: Cause i used the BA livery i used what the company uses in real life 0 on the ground and 100 cruise.

I also use the automatic short range fuel option which i think gives me something like 25000kgs

 

In this case the last leg that has speed and altitude is DVR. SUMUM and REDFA have nothing.

 

Thats about it fellows, i know that i used much info and i am sorry for that, but i hope if anybody has an answer, i would appreciate it if they would tell me!

 

George

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I will give you an example, which was the first one to realize something like that, but keep in mind that i tested at least 2 more flight plans with the same oservations.

 

Right, but if those 2 more flight plans were also made under a false assumption, or improper procedure, then of course they're going to be incorrect. If I attempt a takeoff with full nose down trim three times in a row, the aircraft will behave the same way each time, but that doesn't mean there's an issue with the aircraft - rather an issue with the procedure used.

 

Have you flown the tutorial flight(s) to get a feel for how to properly use the FMC?

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Thanks for your reply, actually i did, long time ago. I bought the triple 777 the first week that came out and i flew the tutorial around the same time, i didnt have any problems neither nor any other time.

The only thing that can come up to mind is the selection of the altitude cause if i try to select a very much lower altitude eg 21000ft all the legs are filled up. By the way i own other addon aircrafts too and i dont have this problem occuring even with the 737 ngx.

I have tried everything the last 3 days even a post i read in the same forum regarding ROUTE 2 use instead of ROUTE 1 but nothing.

 

Any suggestions are more than welcome

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Any suggestions are more than welcome

 

If you were following the tutorial procedure then you shouldn't be seeing this.

 

Did you finalize the PERF INIT information?

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In this case the last leg that has speed and altitude is DVR. SUMUM and REDFA have nothing.
You must be doing something incorrect in the FMC because I get .690/28000 at SUMUM. REDFA will have no speed or altitude until a STAR is entered. I believe REDFA is part of the descent. So nothing will appear at that waypoint until a STAR is entered.

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What do you mean exactly, i enter all the info needed in the performance page. Weights, CI, cruise altitude etc. I dont think i miss something in the perf page. I just want to reming you that i do not enter the star like in the tutorial. I want to wait until pro atc gives me instructions while inflight. Thats the whole point.

 

I am thinking something stupid now, is there any case a reinstall of the triple7 will make a difference. I am very sure some people will think this is really stupid, but its just a suggestion.

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What do you mean exactly, i enter all the info needed in the performance page. Weights, CI, cruise altitude etc. I dont think i miss something in the perf page. I just want to reming you that i do not enter the star like in the tutorial. I want to wait until pro atc gives me instructions while inflight. Thats the whole point.

 

...and I understand this point. Tutorial #1.5 does what you're wanting to do without any of the issues you're seeing. Can you be more specific about what you're accomplishing on the CDU to get to this point where you're not seeing any values? If you provide these steps I can try to find where things aren't lining up properly.

 

 

 


I am thinking something stupid now, is there any case a reinstall of the triple7 will make a difference. I am very sure some people will think this is really stupid, but its just a suggestion.

 

Reinstalls rarely solve the issues most people are seeing, either because it's an external issue (an issue outside of our code), or the user is doing something incorrectly (most of the cases, honestly).

 

Full names - first and last - in the forum, please.

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You must be doing something incorrect in the FMC because I get .690/28000 at SUMUM. REDFA will have no speed or altitude until a STAR is entered. I believe REDFA is part of the descent. So nothing will appear at that waypoint until a STAR is entered.

If thats the case, which since you tested it too i have no reason to believe its not, i am going to be flying towards REDFA without any speed or altitude in the fmc until atc contacts me which is usually 10nm before i reach REDFA and then i am going to enter the star.

But i dont think that makes sense.

With 737ngx this doesnt happen though, thats what troubles me!

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in the fmc until atc contacts me which is usually 10nm before i reach REDFA and then i am going to enter the star.

 

This is unrealistic, and one of the primary reasons I harp on ATC simulations. If you want to be realistic about things, then you'll need to avoid them. If you're willing to make concessions in realism (enter the STAR ahead of time), then by all means...

 

 

 


With 737ngx this doesnt happen though, thats what troubles me!

 

They are two different aircraft, and the way descents are calculated is different. On a simple level, note that the 737 requires you to hit EXEC after filling the PERF INIT info, while the 777 does not.

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Can someone please explain to me how can i attach pics. I have print screens of all the pages in my mcdu so i can give you a better idea of my issue

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Go to http://postimage.org/ and upload your pics, then copy the forum thumbnail link into your reply here.

 

Another thing you can do, is pre enter the most probable star. Then when you get your ATC instruction 10nm before the fix you can either continue if its the one loaded, or edit and replace it with the updated one from ATC. Real world air crews get the arrival star information with plenty of time and distance to plug it in and set it up. 10nm seems way close still flying in the mach numbers. 

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Thanks again for your help!!

 

Here is the link

 

http://postimg.org/gallery/1n6thr1pi/a6372ecd/

 

So you're getting some altitudes for the cruise segment, but not in the assumed descent segment. It leaves the altitude off because it knows that it will need to descend prior to REDFA, but without an actual path between it and EHAM, it won't provide you an estimate.

 

See post above about your ATC program's realism versus the realism that the 777 is expecting. It all looks normal to me.

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Being a noob here with respect to the FMC programming, wouldn't it be safe to put in the rest of the leg and then if the ATC gives updated info, to just revise it in flight, or doesn't it work that way for procedure?

 

-Jim

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Being a noob here with respect to the FMC programming, wouldn't it be safe to put in the rest of the leg and then if the ATC gives updated info, to just revise it in flight, or doesn't it work that way for procedure?

 

-Jim

Thats what i am going to do from now on since thats my only option!!!

 

So you're getting some altitudes for the cruise segment, but not in the assumed descent segment. It leaves the altitude off because it knows that it will need to descend prior to REDFA, but without an actual path between it and EHAM, it won't provide you an estimate.

 

See post above about your ATC program's realism versus the realism that the 777 is expecting. It all looks normal to me.

 

Since everything is ok i will just select the STAR from the beginning and if needed i will change it if i am advised to do so. But just out of curiosity what would happen in a real flight with this scenario?

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Since everything is ok i will just select the STAR from the beginning and if needed i will change it if i am advised to do so. But just out of curiosity what would happen in a real flight with this scenario?

 

On a short sector such as this, most of the advice I have ever seen or heard centres around doing as much programming as possible whilst still on the ground in order to alleviate workload during the flight, including the expected STAR/landing runway. Of course, one must remain vigilant to ensure that one flies the route one is subsequently cleared along.

 

On longer sectors where the weather conditions (and thus landing runway) may change significantly during the course of the flight, it may be more efficient to delay programming the arrival until later in the flight when workload is lower and the landing data is better known (which also has the secondary effect of alleviating workload in the preflight phase).

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what would happen in a real flight with this scenario?

 

ATC would give the STAR early enough for you to react properly. As I've said a few times here, ATC programs do not add the level of realism most would assume.

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Thanks again for your help!!

 

Here is the link

 

http://postimg.org/gallery/1n6thr1pi/a6372ecd/

 

Your first screenshot which is the APPROACH REF page shows 26L at EGKK as your landing runway. Why is that there? I am doing all of this on a stationary 77LR at EGKK since this computer I am using has no controls. On the other computer with a flight to KLAX, the APPROACH REF page shows 25L at KLAX as the landing runway which is correct.

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This may be an old post however I was experiencing the same thing on the OCK2F arrival in EGLL.  On OCK it had 6000A altitude restriction, after removing that restriction it quit flickering the ETA times and also populated the legs page with speeds..etc.

 

Hope this helps someone

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Hi,

 

Maybe because the cruise altitude you entered is too high to be reached if complying to the restriction 6000ft at OCK. The departure alitude restriction at EGLL extend quite far from the airport. For short flights it may impede the ability to climb to the cruise altitude.

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