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mrvoyager

Autotrim deactivation

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Is it possible to turn the autotrim off so its more like an ngx? I find its behavior annoying when manually making turns. I don't like how it interacts with my own pitch and trim inputs, it makes the aircraft a bit unstable and not very fun. My opinion is that it should either behave like an airbus or like a boeing, and not something in between in this regard.

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Is it possible to turn the autotrim off so its more like an ngx?

 

No.

 

 

 

My opinion is that it should either behave like an airbus or like a boeing, and not something in between in this regard.

 

It is like a Boeing. Have a read up on 777 FBW. You're pushing off your thoughts on what is correct without actually stating your credentials as to how you can make these assertions. Our reasons for doing things go a lot deeper than "I think this is how it works."

 

Full names in the forum, please.

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It is like a Boeing. Have a read up on 777 FBW. You're pushing off your thoughts on what is correct without actually stating your credentials as to how you can make these assertions. Our reasons for doing things go a lot deeper than "I think this is how it works."

Well ok, I have no credentials to say its made wrong. The simulation is made right, what I meant was the actual aircraft, the actual boeing 777. I believe it was better to either incorporate a full autotrim fly-by-wire system that would adjust positions similar to an airbus, either that or the better option, to just not include an autotrim feature.

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Well ok, I have no credentials to say its made wrong. The simulation is made right, what I meant was the actual aircraft, the actual boeing 777. I believe it was better to either incorporate a full autotrim fly-by-wire system that would adjust positions similar to an airbus, either that or the better option, to just not include an autotrim feature.

Boeing designed the 777 to fly like a Boeing. They opted for auto trim with speed stability to achieve this.

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Well ok, I have no credentials to say its made wrong. The simulation is made right, what I meant was the actual aircraft, the actual boeing 777. I believe it was better to either incorporate a full autotrim fly-by-wire system that would adjust positions similar to an airbus, either that or the better option, to just not include an autotrim feature.

 

Then the people to talk to would be Boeing. We modeled the aircraft to their spec (within the confines of FSX/P3D).

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This topic has been beaten to death honestly........If there is any topic I have commented a lot on, then it is the FBW trim topic.

 

And it keeps coming back.....why do you think that is?

 

The real Boeing FBW and trim system are not the problem.

She flies beautifully smooth I promise!

Its the "within the confines of FSX/P3D" part that causes the problem.

 

First we had a PMDG777 that auto trimmed all the time, like an airbus.

When that was finally rectified more than a year later, we had faulty trim coding resulting in the PMDG777 trimming correctly in one direction only.

And when that was corrected with I think SP1b, we were all so happy that we could finally manuall trim the 777 that we (me included) said....wow, now that is like the real thing!

 

Truth is.....the "within the confines of FSX/P3D" part, is making the PMDG777 so hard to manually fly......much harder than the real thing......that the request for a "disable FBW" system is really understandable.

 

I can not fly this PMDG777 properly unless I display the FBW trim speed and make sure that FBW trim speed = actual speed AT ALL TIMES.

I can not do this by feel on my system with the hardware I use (Saitek Cessna Yoke).

 

All I can say to those who have difficulty manually flying this 777 is:

- dont worry about it, you are not alone

- enjoy this simulation as a systems simulation and learn how to use all the AP features.

(especially Lnav/Van approaches are quite a cool feature)

- if you do want to fly manually then make sure you display the FBW trim speed (cheat mode) and anytime the FBW trim speed indication deviates from actual speed.....even if only by 2kt......hit the trim switches to activate blib trim.

Anytime you are out of trim.....even if just a little......you will be having a fighthing hard time to keep a constant flight path!

And since even the AT does not keep an exact constant speed under varying conditions, you should be using that blib feature all the time....a lot of blipping should be going on.....if not you WILL be out of trim and all over the place!

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And it keeps coming back.....why do you think that is?

 

...because most simmers don't have experience flying a real aircraft, and most of them don't have force feedback hardware to get a feeling for what's going on, honestly.

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...because most simmers don't have experience flying a real aircraft, and most of them don't have force feedback hardware to get a feeling for what's going on, honestly.

Well maybe.....but that does not explain how most of them have no problem with the PMDG737NGX but do have a problem with the PMDG777 that is supposed to behave the same,.......if not, be easier to fly.

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Don't agree, every post I've seen from a fellow-simmer with 777 fly-ability complaints falls into one of two categories: 1) Don't understand the FBW implementation as explained in the Introduction, or 2) Expect the FBW to behave like an airbus.

 

I think the PMDG B77L is easier to fly than any of the NGX's and the -700 is a real nice one.  The advantage that the NGX has is that there is no confusion regarding FBW because there is none.  True, this is just my opinion but the point is that the complaints are due to misunderstanding of systems or wrong expectations.

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Yes, there is confusion too.

 

But I am not confused and still feel the way I feel about it.

 

Maybe it would help if there was a bandwidth of lets say FBW trim ref speed +-5kt where the airplane would just behave as if it was in trim.

 

That would reduce the nessesity for constant blib trimming and maybe make the model feel a bit more stable and easy to fly.

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Well I agree with Rob on that matter. I think I have understood the way the FBW works on the T7 but if I don't display the FBW trim speed I struggle to trim correctly. If I try to trim it without monitoring the mark on the speed tape, I end ud most of time have the trim speed setting way out of range. Which means that when I release the yoke to the center, the airplane abruptly nose up or down.

So I keep diplaying the trim speed make it match the actual speed.

Note that I'm not complying. I'm not a real pilot, I don't have a force feedback yoke and understand the limitation of fsx and simulation and with the trim speed displayed, can fly the T7 quite correctly but I understand people who feel that flying the NGX is easier that the T7.

 

It doesn't prevent me from flying the T7 almost everyday as it is still one of my favourite plane ever owned for FSX.

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Truth is.....the "within the confines of FSX/P3D" part, is making the PMDG777 so hard to manually fly......much harder than the real thing......that the request for a "disable FBW" system is really understandable.

I can not fly this PMDG777 properly unless I display the FBW trim speed and make sure that FBW trim speed = actual speed AT ALL TIMES.

That's right, that is exactly my point. I wonder if it flies better with P3D, probably not thou.

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Lack of force feedback is a total red herring. It only really makes a difference in the 777 FBW at the edge of the flight envelope when protections are coming in and opposing the pilot input with extra force. For trimming purposes it should be no different to a non FBW aircraft, as Rob says.

 

I don't have the problem some people talk about with pitch changes when trimming, so I can only assume it varies according to the hardware you have. The Intro Manual hints at that too. As such I don't need to display the trim speed bug to keep the 777 in trim.

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Lack of force feedback is a total red herring. It only really makes a difference in the 777 FBW at the edge of the flight envelope when protections are coming in and opposing the pilot input with extra force. For trimming purposes it should be no different to a non FBW aircraft, as Rob says.

 

I don't have the problem some people talk about with pitch changes when trimming, so I can only assume it varies according to the hardware you have. The Intro Manual hints at that too. As such I don't need to display the trim speed bug to keep the 777 in trim.

Hi Kevin,

 

What yoke do you have and what FMC nullzone settings?

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Hi Rob,

 

I don't have a yoke, I use a Sidewinder joystick. Old school  ^_^ . I use the default nullzone settings.

 

I find things easier in the -300ER because the trim seems to move further with speed changes on sim. Trim changes in the -200LR version aren't big anyway so much harder to "feel".

 

Kevin

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This topic has been beaten to death honestly........If there is any topic I have commented a lot on, then it is the FBW trim topic.

 

And it keeps coming back.....why do you think that is?

 

The real Boeing FBW and trim system are not the problem.

She flies beautifully smooth I promise!

Its the "within the confines of FSX/P3D" part that causes the problem.

 

First we had a PMDG777 that auto trimmed all the time, like an airbus.

When that was finally rectified more than a year later, we had faulty trim coding resulting in the PMDG777 trimming correctly in one direction only.

And when that was corrected with I think SP1b, we were all so happy that we could finally manuall trim the 777 that we (me included) said....wow, now that is like the real thing!

 

Truth is.....the "within the confines of FSX/P3D" part, is making the PMDG777 so hard to manually fly......much harder than the real thing......that the request for a "disable FBW" system is really understandable.

 

I can not fly this PMDG777 properly unless I display the FBW trim speed and make sure that FBW trim speed = actual speed AT ALL TIMES.

I can not do this by feel on my system with the hardware I use (Saitek Cessna Yoke).

 

All I can say to those who have difficulty manually flying this 777 is:

- dont worry about it, you are not alone

- enjoy this simulation as a systems simulation and learn how to use all the AP features.

(especially Lnav/Van approaches are quite a cool feature)

- if you do want to fly manually then make sure you display the FBW trim speed (cheat mode) and anytime the FBW trim speed indication deviates from actual speed.....even if only by 2kt......hit the trim switches to activate blib trim.

Anytime you are out of trim.....even if just a little......you will be having a fighthing hard time to keep a constant flight path!

And since even the AT does not keep an exact constant speed under varying conditions, you should be using that blib feature all the time....a lot of blipping should be going on.....if not you WILL be out of trim and all over the place!

Frooglesim does a great "Layman's" explanation of how FBW works within the sim.  Either watch from the beginning or skip ahead to about the 12:00 mark and he explains how it all works.

 

 

Hopefully this helps you out.

 

-Jim

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Really? I am really getting to be an old man.  No way am I going to watch a 30 min video of something that can be explained on a page in the Introduction document.

 

One comment totally baffles me:  The need to keep blipping the trim. Well duh!  That's how I was taught to fly.  Always "Fly the Trim, Fly the Trim" my instructor would advise as I struggled to chase the needles under the hood during instrument training.  If you are not constantly trimming during a maneuver then my instructor would like to talk to you.

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Really? I am really getting to be an old man.  No way am I going to watch a 30 min video of something that can be explained on a page in the Introduction document.

 

One comment totally baffles me:  The need to keep blipping the trim. Well duh!  That's how I was taught to fly.  Always "Fly the Trim, Fly the Trim" my instructor would advise as I struggled to chase the needles under the hood during instrument training.  If you are not constantly trimming during a maneuver then my instructor would like to talk to you.

Sorry, just thought I would contribute some visual information.  Sometimes people lose the meaning of things when reading but being shown things can help.  Froogle does a great job explaining things in layman's terms.  Just for the record, I did mention before that you could skip ahead to the 12 minute mark to grab the more pertinent info.

 

-Jim

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LOL don't apologize. I know you're trying to help and I really am turning into a grumpy old man. What is UTube anyway??

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