>I get your point Farlis. Then again there's the price. Quite>a lot for an add-on don't you think? Still, I would love to>play a little bit with the 747. Just to admire the wonderful>work I know PMDG has put into it. Maybe I will give in and buy>it anyway.>>Regards,>>KenYes I have to agree with you there. It's very steep. It's not that I don't understand a general reason for relatively high prices in sophisticated add-on's.It has been discussed before and some of the points made in favor of the designers are valid.However my personal opinion is that demand also has to be a factor with software products. Since it can be supplied ad infinitum a higher demand should result in lower prices. In the case of the 747, PMDG surely did know that the demand for this type of aircraft is exceptionally high.In this light I understand even less why it is so much more expensive compared to the LDS 767 which has basically the same level of sophistication.Personally I will withold buying it until it's patched up. Then I will gnit my teeth and pay the $55 (perhaps I should also wait until the Euro exchange rate is even more in my favor) because I need a good 747 for my Virtual Airline operations. But I am definately not happy with the price.

This is really off topic here, but I felt this silly need to respond to this. No offense meant, but, as a "real" pilot myself, in no way would I consider that what you said is "all there is to it". That's playing a game, which many people do enjoy doing. Of course I'm taking myself more seriously than I should, but I use FS to simulate flying, which means understanding all procedures and performance regimes. As I'm sure you are aware, there is much more to flying a 747 than just pushing the throttles forward, lifting off, and flopping it back to the runway. You must understand weights (and fuel), power, taking care of your engines for max performance (not just flying, but also staying maintenance free), etc. etc. All this is important to me. I don't even have the time to learn the procedures on a few singles, and I haven't even gotten in to twins yet. I definately agree with the first responder. And yes, I do practice flying SID's and STARS by hand. But not in heavy's I wouldn't know how. But I wouldn't fly them till I did know how.ThomasN15802KASH

Excellent points Billg and Thomas. There should be some middle ground though. Many months from now when I want to finally dig deeply into the PMDG 747 I would hate to get started Saturday morning and have to wait hours for a response before sucessful installation. I would probably get as frustrated as OHN and go to flying another company's 747 instead. I wouldn't want to come back hours later and try again but I probably would. Time constraints are too great to keep focused on a wait state.Right now I'm doing my day job thing patching 350 Windows 2000/2003 servers and responding to this email at the same time. If I had to wait for AVSIM to be available I wouldn't be responding at all. I would also probably forget to come back and try again or I'd simply go to another site where access was more dependable. This should concern PMDG since it could potentially affect their bottom line. It may not be that critical though and I can see both sides of the issue. I have always been a staunch supporter of many of the add-on vendors simply because this is a tight-nit community with a niche product. I will continue to support PMDG for that reason no matter what their method of product delivery.This has been a nice thread though. I can't remember when I've responded to a thread without a lot of yelling and ego venting. I hope I haven't spoken too soon though.Regards to all,Ken

To me, the way to approach a purchase:1. Let all the initial "hoopala" takes its course. Enjoy the ride reading all the comments, questions, screenshots, reviews and the never ending rants & raves on pricing. 2. Wait until after the first patch comes out (doesn't it seem like all addons have a patch these days?). That way you can avoid that frustration.3. Now, you can really decide in a calm and mature matter (yea, right), if you really want to purchase this for whatever your reasons are. Mine are always based on the price against how much will I REALLY take the time to learn and fly this bird or use this piece of scenery.Then I might admit to myself I am making just a purchase of something just because I WANT IT!... that happens too.4. Since all the madneess has died down I can purchase it with no issues of bandwidth. 5. Also, I never purchase on a weekend. Not only because of the crowds online but who wants to sit down with thier nice, new purchase only to discover some snafu on the install and you can't contact customer support until Monday! Rats.So while all this crazyness is going on for the current "must have" addon, I can sit down with my last purchase in the meantime and take the time to use that one.... sort of a delayed effect. The product may be several months old but it is still new to me if I just opened it.

Hi, First of all this answer has nothing at all to do with PMDG, but all payware in general, Over the week-end I was reading my copy of COMPUTER PILOT on page 35 the artical about " PAYWARE QUALITY ISSUES" I recently downloaded the SYSTEM BOOSTER trial package and after a 30 day trial I went ahead and purchased it. I read that not all are happy with the program for one reason or another, but my point is that , after a 30 day trial I made my own decision to buy. Whats needed in this hobby is a uniformed stane to demand a 30 day trial from ALL software vendors. Those that don't offer it would find their product bypassed.This is MHO, say you !TONY

I understand why some think that $55.00 is too much for an add on but let's look at it from an accounting perspective for a moment. If I remember it correctly there were something like 40,000 man hours put into the 747 so if you pay those people at $18.00 an hour that comes to $720,000.00 dollars, yes almost 3/4 of a million dollars. The people who did that work deserve to get paid a good wage plus you have the costs of computers to create the plane on, software, advertising, the cost of their web site and bandwidth as well as their ecommerce solution and finally the cost of any research materials they needed to create the 747, which potentially could be very high. Ok, say if the costs were at $720,000 to make the 747 they would have to sell 13,090 units in order to break even. I know that I am over simplifying this and my numbers are probably off from the real thing but it gives you an idea of the costs involved. If you want something with this much detail you are going to have to pay for it and PMDG must recoup it's costs. When I look at the numbers I am amazed that this add on did not cost more.Best Regards, Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

Flight 1 is good, although I have been trying for weeks to resolve an issue where they updated an install file and my key no longer works. I keep getting referred to a form which, maddeningly, has no fields to address my particular issue. An email exchange fizzled out and I haven't regenerated enough ambition to have a another try at getting my problem resolved with human assistance. Also, one of these days I'm going to be asked for the last four digits of an old credit card number and won't be able to remember.Phoenix seems to have given me the fewest headaches. In fact, I can't recall ever being frustrated by a reinstall. They get my account email and password and they're very happy to let me download what I paid for! I actually like their system the best.Aerosoft, on the other hand, wants me to reactivate the thingmajig on the dingus site with the doodad number every time and I usually end up using language my kids haven't heard since they were much smaller and I was playing Wing Commander.PMDG has been okay, since, IIRC, I just need to reinstall from the exectuable (747 might be different -- hope I don't have to find out soon).Bottom line is I do take into account past issues with reinstallations when I decide to purchase or not.

Wait a second there. I, the customer, have to pay more because it took a group of people longer than the other? Why isn't the LDS as expensive I have to ask again. Was it not as time consuming to program? Not as difficult to model?I doubt it.

I just don't get it. Why are people complaining that it costs too much? Does a BMW cost too much? Enough, already. If you want it buy it, if it's not worth it to you, don't. There is no way this bickering is going to convince anyone to lower their prices. Your only vote is your pocketbook. The market will charge what the market will bear, plain and simple.Thomas

with the increasing price of add ons, I keep saying to myself "the #### game cost $50 to begin with". The cost of add ons have surpased the cost of the original game (araine, PMDG). I dont think you can compaire the PMDG 744 to a BMW at all.The fact is, PMDG charged $55 dollars for an add on and I'm pretty sure they knew people would buy it at whatever price they charged, and the fact that their servers crashed because of the volume of downloads tells you they were right. It's really none of our buisness why they charged that amount.Price is relative, if you feel it's worth it then it is, if you dont, then it isnt. I'm pretty sure these online developers overhead is pretty low, I mean, most of these guys work on their computers in their homes and network over the internet so it's not like they are working out of a shop somewhere and paying all the costs associated with that. But there are adverts and servers and money to the ecomerce site they use.I will say this tho, if people keep making comments about addons like "I'll pay whatever they want I love this plane" then the prices will continue to go higher and higher.

I was not comparing PMDG to a BMW, I was only pointing out that some people think a BMW costs too much and some don't. BMW bases its price point on the market, so should PMDG.Thomas

"After hearing so many good reports like your's about this plane I think I will take the plunge."Still "wacko", eh Ken! Hey...how ya' doin? I think you'll love the PMDG, I think its tres' cool.Take care,Braun

>Hi Guys,>>Not to dump on this thread, but I just read this! We can give>you weather at your local airports, but there is nothing that>says we can give you weather at your house!>>Hope this helps,>Jim>ActiveSky Sales and Support>http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_dev_team.jpg>http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_proud_supporter.jpgThanks Jim. Pass on my humble appreciation for all things ASV to the development team. They really do good work.Ken

>"After hearing so many good reports like your's about this>plane I think I will take the plunge.">>Still "wacko", eh Ken! >>Hey...how ya' doin? I think you'll love the PMDG, I think its>tres' cool.>>Take care,>>BraunHey Braun. How's it going? Yes, still "Wacko Ken Jacko". Nice that you remembered that. Do you remember simular debates in the PMDG forum some time ago when they released their first major FS add-on? Those were the days, eh? We (I) were so worked up over PMDG's delivery process and I (we) were trying to get them to listen. Well, they did listen and the delivery process is much better because of it, but it is still not where some would like it.I don't post much these days but I read everything. Glad to hear from ya.You take care now,Ken

>I just don't get it. Why are people complaining that it>costs too much? Does a BMW cost too much? Enough, already. >If you want it buy it, if it's not worth it to you, don't. >There is no way this bickering is going to convince anyone to>lower their prices. Your only vote is your pocketbook. The>market will charge what the market will bear, plain and>simple.>>ThomasHi Thomas. How did you know I purchased a BMW this year? My wife loves the car. Me, I want a new plane but that won't happen. Anyway, I must respectfully disagree with you here. As I posted earlier PMDG did listen to their customers long ago and I think they still do. As consumers we always have the right to voice our opinions. Maybe it will help and maybe it won't, but we can still discuss the issue in a calm and reasonable fashion. Many have pointed out that the price is reasonable and many have stated the opposite. I happen to know that PMDG does listen to their customers and we all can make a difference.Regards,Ken