Hey guys, hope everyone is doing well. I spoke with a distant uncle who flies with Southwest, and of course asked him some questions (I want to be in his shoes one day!) One question that I was really curious about was the cost index. On youtube, you see people putting in various numbers, but I wanted to know what the real pilots use, and he said that a typical value was 20-25. By the way, he said that very rarely they got up to FL410 due to the heavy weight of routes these days. Hope that helps with your simming experience.

 

-Josh McCoruqodale

 

 

 

 

(P.S. If anyone here is a repainter and would like to do me a favor, could you check out my previous topic on an A2A Cherokee repaint? Thanks!)

and he said that a typical value was 20-25. By the way, he said that very rarely they got up to FL410 due to the heavy weight of routes these days. Hope that helps with your simming experience.

 

Damn, I was using 10-15 for SWA. I guess that's a little on the low side but a least I was flying between FL340 and FL370. Thanks for the information.

Standard Disclaimer applies:

 

Cost Indexes, by definition, should change flight to flight based on the costs and time constraints involved. Southwest is usually not an example of a normal operator. That's not to say anything mean about them, but keep in mind that this is the operator who would not use A/T or VNAV until a few years ago. Again - nothing against them, but if one is coming to a decision about what is "normal" in the operation of the 737, I wouldn't be basing that on Southwest.

 

That being said, more often than not, I do see people saying SWA uses a fixed CI much more than I see it for other carriers.

If I may. . .

SimBrief is a wonderful place to see the application of your CI.

A flight from KXXX to KYYY, put in a flight time of two hours then generate your dispatch.

Now change your flight time to 1:15 and watch your CI change.

I've learned that the CI is a visible part of the complex maths that go into calculating speeds, climb profiles and decent profiles.

As we don't have to pay for fuel, think more about the scheduled times, and the cost index would be based off that.

Damn, I was using 10-15 for SWA. I guess that's a little on the low side but a least I was flying between FL340 and FL370. Thanks for the information.

As far as cruise altitudes, it's mostly just done off of the optimum. Unless there are strong winds or turbulence, just go with the FMC optimum.

 

 

The -700 can go up to FL410 with a descent load, but the -800/-900 needs to be light. The Classics only go up to FL370.

The Classics only go up to FL370.

I remember flying jumpseat on a Condor (LH charter) 735 back in 1994 from LGKR (Corfu, Greece) to EDDH (Hamburg, Germany). We were going at FL410 with IAS below 230 kts and high pitch. So I started discussing the theoretical use of Flaps 1.

The crew used high altitude tail winds at rel. high OAT.

In the end Flaps1 was thought to be o.k. at IAS 210 which would have been worse than using FL390...

So this 735 was on the limit...

I remember flying jumpseat on a Condor (LH charter) 735 back in 1994 from LGKR (Corfu, Greece) to EDDH (Hamburg, Germany). We were going at FL410 with IAS below 230 kts and high pitch. So I started discussing the theoretical use of Flaps 1.

The crew used high altitude tail winds at rel. high OAT.

In the end Flaps1 was thought to be o.k. at IAS 210 which would have been worse than using FL390...

So this 735 was on the limit...

 

Max flap extension altitude is 20,000, aircraft limitation.

Funny these threads, I swear a few weeks ago someone quoted SWA at 40 (someone spoke to a friend who was a friend of a friend of a SWA pilot).

 

FWIW...

 

I just pick 40... realizing that in real life (if I understand correctly) the pilots are handed a cost index... or have a standard one... or something similar... the pilot themselves don't sit down and do the calculation every time they sit down for a flight. So in my opinion, the number is irrelevant, given that I have an understanding of the CONCEPT of the CI... and that if I were actually a captain sitting in a real plane, I would just be given a number by dispatch.

 

Similar in the case of other things the pilot is handed... the takeoff settings for one.. I have a found a free spreadsheet that uses some logic go spit the takeoff settings to me (TO mode, flaps setting, & assumed temp), as well as some other items. Again, I am quite sure they are not true to real life, but it gets me in the ballpark - and certainly more accurate then just taking off full bore. True to real life, though (correct me if I'm wrong) in that the captain gets relayed the TO settings from dispatch and isn't actually performing calculations in the seat.

 

Good luck, Josh, in your journey to be a pilot. I wanted to go down that route too, but chose the "American dream" route of a wife & kids, and a 9-5 job with holidays & weekends off. Not sure if its still the case, but the life of a pilot (especially early on) wasn't very wife / girlfriend / 9-5 job compatible. Don't let the cost for flight hours deter you (as it did me) because looking back I spent way more on an engineering degree then I would have getting a pilot's license.

I just pick 40... realizing that in real life (if I understand correctly) the pilots are handed a cost index... or have a standard one... or something similar... the pilot themselves don't sit down and do the calculation every time they sit down for a flight. So in my opinion, the number is irrelevant, given that I have an understanding of the CONCEPT of the CI... and that if I were actually a captain sitting in a real plane, I would just be given a number by dispatch.

 

Usually.

 

Similar in the case of other things the pilot is handed... the takeoff settings for one.. I have a found a free spreadsheet that uses some logic go spit the takeoff settings to me (TO mode, flaps setting, & assumed temp), as well as some other items. Again, I am quite sure they are not true to real life, but it gets me in the ballpark - and certainly more accurate then just taking off full bore. True to real life, though (correct me if I'm wrong) in that the captain gets relayed the TO settings from dispatch and isn't actually performing calculations in the seat.

 

Depends on the operation. The JS41, as an example, you did them on your own (at least at ACA).

 

Good luck, Josh, in your journey to be a pilot. I wanted to go down that route too, but chose the "American dream" route of a wife & kids, and a 9-5 job with holidays & weekends off. Not sure if its still the case, but the life of a pilot (especially early on) wasn't very wife / girlfriend / 9-5 job compatible. Don't let the cost for flight hours deter you (as it did me) because looking back I spent way more on an engineering degree then I would have getting a pilot's license.

 

Dang...where did you go???

 

I just looked back at how much I've spent on my flying and had to sit there on the floor, rocking back and forth, repeating "this is my grad school...this is my grad school...this is my version of grad school...relax..."

I got a bachelor in Civil engineering at the University of MN. The problem was I let my wife run the show... she maxed out any student loans that were available. Typical teenager irresponsibility.. take on MASSIVE student debt right out of high school. Should be criminal that the system even would allow that... but it happened. Plus there were two of us, with no help from parents or anything.

 

I don't even remember how we racked it up as high as it is. Honestly - we both worked nearly full time throughout college.

But, sadly that is the norm nowadays.. you're going to go into debt... massive debt going to college... so don't let that be a blocker to becoming a pilot either.

 

The biggest block for me was my option to take that road to a pilot would have led me to Florida... Comair I think it was. The week after I graduated high school I moved from Pittsburgh to MN... to be with my girlfriend (now my wife of 14 years). Back then, nothing mattered as long as I was with her (young love... ahhh) I didn't want to leave her to pursue a career in flight. I don't regret the decision, but the fork in the road was there, and I went down this route. So here I am, 16 years later getting my passion for flight on a simulator. Happy medium. 

I got a bachelor in Civil engineering at the University of MN. The problem was I let my wife run the show... she maxed out any student loans that were available. Typical teenager irresponsibility.. take on MASSIVE student debt right out of high school. Should be criminal that the system even would allow that... but it happened. Plus there were two of us, with no help from parents or anything.

 

Yeah, I went on a rant recently when I found out how much my friend paid for textbooks alone. It was high when I was at Tech 10 years ago, but it's terrible now. The costs are nuts in general, though. I only paid my loans off a year or so ago.

 

The biggest block for me was my option to take that road to a pilot would have led me to Florida... Comair I think it was. The week after I graduated high school I moved from Pittsburgh to MN... to be with my girlfriend (now my wife of 14 years). Back then, nothing mattered as long as I was with her (young love... ahhh) I didn't want to leave her to pursue a career in flight. I don't regret the decision, but the fork in the road was there, and I went down this route. So here I am, 16 years later getting my passion for flight on a simulator. Happy medium. 

 

Ah...so you paid out of state for MN, too, right?

...or at least for the first few years until you were an official resident (not sure how MN does it - VA requires two years of residency before getting in-state status, I think)?

 

I think that's what I'm going to do with the Sim Center, honestly. I don't think I'll ever fly for the airlines, so I can get my airline crew "experience" when flying with whoever comes down to the Center. I'm willing to bet my flying stays personal and corporate, but who knows. I never thought I'd be where I am right now to begin with.

MN required one year residency, so yeah I paid out of state for the first year. My first class of my first semester was ground school. That's when it was revealed to me how much it would cost to get the flight hours in to get on the road to a commercial pilot. It was shocking the cost per hour to fly... and the amount of hours needed. I immediately went into "I have no idea what I want to do" mode and just took basic courses for 2 years. Took a year stint going down the Wal Mart management route before having a breakdown and realizing I didn't want to work for Walmart for the rest of my life. At that point I picked my current career path and finished out (two extra years of college added to the debt).

In hindsight... if I knew I was going to spend as much as I did to get my current degree, throwing out the pilot path due to the cost was nonsense. However, that second part... moving to another state again... losing my girl... weighed heavily on my decision too.

For Josh, though... more power to him. If he's young, single, and broke... none of those three things should stop him from getting to his dream job as a SWA pilot. Heck, FS5 with a 16k dialup internet connection got me roped in enough to want to take becoming a pilot seriously, young people today having the ability to fly PMDG's NGX within FSX, and all the free resources on the internet (and if hes young enough, relatively limitless free time to take it all in) - hell of a head start to becoming a pilot down the road.

I don't know what it takes to get to the captains seat in a 737 (that's surely another topic in another forum), but I'm sure there are some difficulties (as there always is to anything) to get there. Similar to doctors, I imagine you have to pay your dues to get to where you want to go... in the airline world this means odd flights, odd times, odd locations, flying planes you may not want to fly.