Lear 35 OOM issue

[twharrell 38]

Well I just installed v1.2 and now I'm getting OOM's before I can even taxi. I had no VAS issues with v1.1. Using P3Dv3.

[Flysimware 647]

V1.2 has autopilot bugs. You need V1.3. For the OOM issue V1.2 and V1.3 have no changes as the texture impact is the same. And textures is what effects memory.

[CODY614 6]

I know why Beaver is not seeing the trim needle in the air. It's because the trim pointer only shows trim up and does not indicate trim down. When your flying in the air you do not need a trim indicator, it's for setting takeoff range based on weight. The Lear 35A did not bother to indicate trim down and during a flight your going to be in a down position. If you put your mouse over the secondary trim control switch it will tell you the trim position from tool tips.

 

So everyone knows V1.2 got flooding fixed but i screwed up 2 autopilot modes and V1.3 is now fixed.

 

Yes for customers having OOM issues it's always has been suggested to change to P3D because they are pushing the limits FSX can handle. Most FSX customers will not have a OOM issue as i also do not have issues. Since my sim uses the default scenery i only use 1GB at most and always have 3GB free and this tells to me the Lear is running the exact same VAS as all of my other aircraft.

 

So beaver we did beta test this product but with such a busy system there are always going to be a few minor tweaks to fix. And the trim is not one of them as this was always working. There is a new topic on our hydraulic system as we do not have an auxiliary hydraulic system but FSX does not have this feature and our HYD switch will not be used for auxiliary but to override the main hydraulics since engines must be running based off of default jet air files.

 

No reason to wait a month i usually fix everything customers find wrong in the first 10 days. And some issues can't be fixed do to FSX limitations.

Well..that is a pretty bold statement...

For some one like myself that has quite a bit of FSX payware, to go back and re-purchase license's for P3D would a financial disaster...

So I'm guessing here, this was mainly tested in P3D? Your statement is unclear about what "Sim" you are using.

And your page for the Lear does say ...

 

REQUIRMENTS:

• FSX SP2 or Acceleration / FSX-STEAM EDITION / P3D V1-V2-V3...

Now I'm sure I will catch flak for this reply, but I would like to / will purchase this once it becomes more stable.

 

[Flysimware 647]

I agree with you nobody should have to change sims. I only was saying that anyone that wants to push the limits higher may have to use P3D since FSX will cause the OOM issue. But for these customers who are getting the warning know their limits and my aircraft is pushing beyond it which for most users will have no effect. Like myself where i have 3GB free at all times. But i prefer to solve this issue so customers do not think we are using more than PMDG uses as they have a high VAS usage and i want customers who do push the limits to be able to use our products.

 

The product is designed for all sims. Most developers design 1 product for all the sims i have listed. The only difference is the installation location. Some developers may develop a product specific for P3D using there new features which would not work in FSX. This is rare but there are a few that do this. Most make the product using standard coding that is used by all the sims.

 

I think the OOM issue is caused from our dimmer lights which is a new feature and the night textures are in a gauge in BMP format. And this is the first time we had a OOM issue. So i was thinking until Bill can give me more info i was thinking of making the patch using a lower bmp format. Anyone who would like to do a test that in fact does get the OOM warning can simply remove the "Flysimware_DIMMER" gauge from the gauge folders and fly during the day and see if this makes a difference. Tonight i will do some testing using BMP 8 rather than BMP 24.

[Dean33 69]

Keep up the good work. Excellent communications on issues and three revisions in just a few days. Anybody reading between the lines and remembering the previous history of the MU2 will know this is going to end up a superb aircraft. It's already 99% of the way there!

[Flysimware 647]

Word Not Allowed's Flight Simulation World

-------------FSX, OOM and Addon VAS Usage--------------

Dear simmers,
Due to the fact that an OOM discussion pops up every now and then, and it usually starts from beginning, today I’d like to start a page about Virtual Address Space. Please note I’ll try to keep this document as little technical as it can be – all the technical information about the VAS can be found on the pages like Wikipedia, Microsoft, Memory Management explanations etc. I’d like to keep this simple, for everyone to understand why is FSX crashing as of late more and more. I have been observing this development in the last couple of years, as the first OOMs appeared. I also have to give my thanks to many other fellow simmers, who also helped me understand the basics of memory management and how FSX works.
Simply explained, VAS is a working space of a program (let’s just call it that). DO NOT think physical memory or page file have anything to do with this. VAS is a specific space for an application, which can, under 64bit operating system be up to 4GB for the 32bit application.
64bit OS + 32bit application (FSX) = up to 4GB VAS
(32bit OS + 32bit application = 2GB of VAS, or max 3GB with a tweak)
Remember this, as this is the 101 for OOMs.

Does it matter if you have 4GB, 8GB, 16GB, 32GB of RAM? No. Does it matter how big or disabled your page file is? No.
So what does it mean? FSX has 4GB of VAS to work with. Everything you load into FSX, basically loads into VAS. Be that an aircraft textures, airport scenery, tree texture, whatever you install and run, is going to have its place in VAS.
Since we do have a limited space of 4000MB, we have to have concerns when this space is going to fill up. All those nice airport sceneries, HD aircraft textures, they take a very heavy impact on the VAS when loaded.

One of the biggest culprits when VAS is concerned is LOD_RADIUS inFSX.cfg. This setting alone offsets the VAS usage by couple of hundred MB when bumped from default 4.5 to 6.5 (I also suggest this in my guide, but with the caveat that it can pretty quickly cause an OOM).

When this space fills up, you are presented by windows with a very nice message that your memory is low and the application will now close. FSX is going to quit.

What we should be aware of, is how much our addons use. Some use more, some use less, but they always take some VAS space. And most importantly, due to nature of FSX, this space is not freed as you fly along, nor has anyone yet come up with a plan how to free it up or fix this problem. So for example: you start your flight with an addon aircraft and addon airport, and your VAS usage is 2800MB. When you fly along, this usage will slowly grow. If you don’t overfly any other addon airports, it is bound to grow maybe couple of 100 MBs. let’s say for the sake of an example: up to 3200MB. When you come into range of your destination, and let’s assume you have an addon airport, which loads about 300MB into VAS, you will successfully land, as you will end up with 3500MB VAS.

But, let’s assume another scenario, in which you overfly two airports on the way to your destination, or you have some photoscenery, or or or, and the VAS usage grows up to 3700MB until descend. Now you can pretty much sure your sim is 99% going to crash on landing with out of memory = OOM error.

So, what you can do is only counteract it through some sim-management!
1) Always know your VAS usage, keep a tool for measuring it at hand, so you can quickly check
2) Keep your other scenery deactivated – now, while I understand this might be a nuissance, there is a simple way of doing it – SceneryConfigEditor – this tool gives you a possibility to quickly disable all non-essential scenery with a bit of sorting-imagination.
Download here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fs-sceditor/files/
A word of caution on this tool: while very helpful, it can cost you your whole scenery.cfg if you are not careful. My suggestion is to run it as FSX obviously, but uncheck the “Follow the NewScenery convention”. This will always change the scenery.cfg directly, which means, after you install a scenery, if the installer is following the NewScenery.cfgconvention, you MUST start FSX first, before the scenery will appear in the scenery.cfg. Also always keep a manual backup of your scenery.cfg.

3) Keep away from really high quality textures, as much as you can – I know they are looking nice and beautiful. If you know what you’re doing, by all means, load them up, but flying NGX with McPhat HD textures over ORBX into UK2000 EGLL with 4096 clouds is not a possibility, so much I can tell you.

4) If you are in flight, and notice a high VAS usage (meaning very high, so that you probably won’t be able to land): save and reload the flight, possibly lower the LOD_RADIUS in between. Make sure however you are flying the aircraft that supports that (PMDG stuff does for example).
So how do we measure VAS:

There are more ways than one, but for me, the simplest one is a tool called “Process Explorer”, can be downloaded here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
When you start it up, I suggest you press on the Process column, to sort the processes after their names, alphabetically. As the next step, in the menu -> View -> Select Columns -> [Tab] Process Memory -> [check] Virtual Size -> OK. Additionally you can deactivate any other columns that are displayed by default, if any. In the main window, press onto “Virtual Size” column, to sort after the virtual size. This will always put FSX as the first when running.

This will give you a neat view of FSX VAS so you can quickly monitor it.
NOTE: It is NOT possible to view VAS with a stock Windows Task Manager. Anyone coming to me with that idea, will be fully ignored. Use above approach or any alternative (but then again, you should know what you’re doing if using alternatives).

So, I’d like to urge everyone, before you start yelling at developers that their scenery is causing OOMs, reflect upon your system and see how many OTHER stuff you have running and question yourself which one is the biggest culprit and where can you optimize.
Most importantly, if you have something to add to this page, which might benefit everyone, please make a comment, I’ll be glad to add it into the page.

Additionally, I will start here with couple of VAS usages for addons I own and use a lot, so you get a feeling what each addon uses, and I hope to expand the list as the time passes:

PMDG NGX: 741MB
PMDG 747: 711MB
UK2000 EGKK: 140MB
ORBX ENGLAND: 200MB
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is not our final conclusion as i am waiting for more info from good developer but these are facts based off of this article. I highlighted in red the section that explains how VAS grows over a flight. And it's scenery not aircraft. Aircraft only starts with a specific usage amount. Our usage may look higher than PMDG values above but i am including the entire FSX usage with our models loaded.

 

But i do want to say that once a addon aircraft is loaded it has loaded all the memory it needs. From there during the flight it uses CPU. Scenery is what makes VAS grow as it has to load more textures. So this thread called "LEAR 35 OOM ISSUES" is really a personal sim issue as the thread should have said "LEAR 35 HIGH VAS". And we have made a patch. But for some reason these 4 maybe 5 customers say that it did not work for them. So from learning a lot recently on VAS i can only assume they are near the limit of their VAS usage and may have to lower their settings or use one of the tips above to tweak their system more. We have over 90 customers now and i have not received any email on this issue besides the thread here on Avsim.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Learjet 35A : 1,350 MB
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Learjet 35A + PATCH : 818 MB (This includes our patch we made for users who have issues)
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Mitsubishi MU-2B-60 : 877 MB
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Cessna 441 : 779 MB
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Cessna 402C : 818 MB
FSX default scenery + Flysimware Nieuport 24BIS : 601 MB

-----------------------------------------------------------
I do admit our dimmer lights increase the VAS by 500MB and our patch removes the 500MB so the VAS is as much as our other aircraft. So anyone still afraid we have a VAS issue can base that info from this article and our usage i posted above. All aircraft were loaded at the same airport 1 after another.
-----------------------------------------------------------

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Woweeee! First, "I know why Beaver is not seeing the trim needle in the air. It's because the trim pointer only shows trim up and does not indicate trim down. When your flying in the air you do not need a trim indicator, it's for setting takeoff range based on weight. The Lear 35A did not bother to indicate trim down and during a flight your going to be in a down position. If you put your mouse over the secondary trim control switch it will tell you the trim position from tool tips."  Puleeese tell me you didn't read this in a RW Lear manual!! I'm certain that the FAA would be extremely interested in reading this. As a RW Avionics Tech, I find this impossible to believe without documentation.

 

As for the rest, I feel this airplane is not suited for use on my system. Since the above requirements to operate are not stated on your website, I have requested a full refund in exchange for deleting all Lear 35 files, including keys, from my HD. Please see your ticket system for the refund application.

 

Glenn

[Dean33 69]

'Woweeee'

I have to say in P3D V3 it works great with no obvious problems. I can't comment on FSX.

 

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try- you can't please all the people all the time.

[ramprat 8]

Flysimware,

 

Thank you for the explanation on VAS.  I, for one, appreciate it as I am an old RW pilot who can find his way around a cockpit.  But computers are pure magic to me.   And I also want to applaud your keeping us in the loop via this forum. 

[twharrell 38]

Well I just installed v1.2 and now I'm getting OOM's before I can even taxi. I

V1.2 has autopilot bugs. You need V1.3. For the OOM issue V1.2 and V1.3 have no changes as the texture impact is the same. And textures is what effects memory.

 

 

So, the version I downloaded and installed yesterday is v1.3? If so, then v1.3 is causing OOM. By the way, how do we know when a new version is available? I never receive any notifications by email.

[Dean33 69]

One way is to follow on Facebook.

 

I don't have OOM problems but I followed the instructions above and installed process server so that I could monitor VAS just out of interest. I then install the patch and noticed a considerable reduction in VAS. Suggest you give this a try.

Cheers

Dean

[Bob Scott 7,742]

I know why Beaver is not seeing the trim needle in the air. It's because the trim pointer only shows trim up and does not indicate trim down. When your flying in the air you do not need a trim indicator, it's for setting takeoff range based on weight.

 

Can't say I agree with this...a trim indicator is absolutely essential inflight for detecting runaway trim, a serious malfunction that can put you in the dirt lickety-split.  It may not be used routinely, but it still has an important function in the air.

 

Regards

[Flysimware 647]

ame="twharrell" post="3326128" timestamp="1447554629"]

Well I just installed v1.2 and now I'm getting OOM's before I can even taxi. I

 

 

 

So, the version I downloaded and installed yesterday is v1.3? If so, then v1.3 is causing OOM. By the way, how do we know when a new version is available? I never receive any notifications by email.

We post our version name and update list on our main website product page for all aircraft. This way you can check weekly or daily around the time we have a new release. I will be sending news soon to our newsletter. You must be subscribed to receive updates and new product news.

Can't say I agree with this...a trim indicator is absolutely essential inflight for detecting runaway trim, a serious malfunction that can put you in the dirt lickety-split.  It may not be used routinely, but it still has an important function in the air.

 

Regards

But this is how the tech manual has the trim gauge. And when your going to land your going to have trim up which then will show. During high speeds your not going to see an indication as this would not be needed.

One way is to follow on Facebook.

 

I don't have OOM problems but I followed the instructions above and installed process server so that I could monitor VAS just out of interest. I then install the patch and noticed a considerable reduction in VAS. Suggest you give this a try.

Cheers

Dean

This is why i made the patch so that users who use payware airports and photo real terrain will have better results with our low VAS patch. And this is considered low which makes me wonder why Beaver still has issues. Now he wants a refund and has posted this public after emailing me on this refund request.

'Woweeee'

I have to say in P3D V3 it works great with no obvious problems. I can't comment on FSX.

 

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try- you can't please all the people all the time.

This is the truth that you can't please all but i am glad i only have around 2 or 3 customers per product that do not like it or have issues from their sim.

And there is no problems for 99% of our customers using FSX. Both sims will work good as long as you do not push FSX limits from settings, scenery and terrain.

Woweeee! First, "I know why Beaver is not seeing the trim needle in the air. It's because the trim pointer only shows trim up and does not indicate trim down. When your flying in the air you do not need a trim indicator, it's for setting takeoff range based on weight. The Lear 35A did not bother to indicate trim down and during a flight your going to be in a down position. If you put your mouse over the secondary trim control switch it will tell you the trim position from tool tips."  Puleeese tell me you didn't read this in a RW Lear manual!! I'm certain that the FAA would be extremely interested in reading this. As a RW Avionics Tech, I find this impossible to believe without documentation.

 

As for the rest, I feel this airplane is not suited for use on my system. Since the above requirements to operate are not stated on your website, I have requested a full refund in exchange for deleting all Lear 35 files, including keys, from my HD. Please see your ticket system for the refund application.

 

Glenn

This is a quote from the article in case you missed it. Although i am waiting for more info but think this issue is not from developers. Also software is not refundable but i have offered you a free product from your email today as i do want you to be able to use the money you spent on a aircraft you can use.

 

So, I’d like to urge everyone, before you start yelling at developers that their scenery is causing OOMs, reflect upon your system and see how many OTHER stuff you have running and question yourself which one is the biggest culprit and where can you optimize.

[zmak 331]

After reading everything , it appears that the lear is about the same VAS usage as the PMDG 777. Anyone who owns both here care to comment?

[Guest BeaverDriver]

After reading everything , it appears that the lear is about the same VAS usage as the PMDG 777. Anyone who owns both here care to comment?

 

No problems running the 777 in the heaviest scenery available. Nor the NGX. Nor the Real Air products. In fact the only OOM I have ever experienced in FSX is with the Flysimware Lear 35.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

FYI

As posted earlier, due to continued problems with the Flysimware Lear 35 with trim, OOM and autopilot issues, I applied for a refund. I was told that software does not qualify for refunds, and that the issue is with my sim only since very few people are having the problem. That is not the case of course, as numerous people have listed problems of OOM's, trim issues, etc.

 

This aircraft is the only FS add on that has ever caused me an OOM and so I seriously doubt it is my sim that's at fault. Others have said the same thing.

 

I also reported a trim gauge problem and Flyswimware said that I was the only one experiencing that. That also is not true as it was reported first a couple of days before I reported my issue. Thence, after they declared on the forum that I was the only one who was having the problem, others piped up to say they too were having an issue. Flysimware's answer to that was that the trim gauge should not show any indication in the air, only on the ground. As an avionics tech, I can tell you if that occurred in the air, the airplane would be grounded.

 

Further, the autopilot is incapable of holding an altitude at better than plus/minus 300 feet at 25,000 ft. This issue has not been reported by me at this point as it seems pointless to do so now.

 

This is the very last time I will deal with Flysimware. You decide for yourselves if you wish to deal with them yourselves, but definitely it's caveat emptor.

 

Since I am not getting a refund, I EXPECT to receive notices about updates, even if I choose not to reinstall the airplane.

 

Glenn