Two PROATC-X Questions

[regis9 4,014]

Hello, I'm on the fence about purchasing this, looking for feedback in three areas:

 

- From what I've read it works best with flightplans that include SIDS and STARS.  What happens if that airports you're flying into don't use SIDS/STARS or have a very simple SID?  For example, in Canada many airports have a SID that consists of "fly runway heading, maintain 5,000 or as assigned by ATC".  How does PROATC-X deal with these types of situations?

- Similar to above, from what I've read, vectoring is better than in previous versions.  So if I chose not to fly a STAR, or the STAR concluded with ATC vectors, am I going to get decent/realistic vectors?

- How does it handle step climbs?  Specifically, the PMDG 777 has a great auto step climb features, and on 12 hour flights I'm often away from the computer when a step climb is initiated.  With default ATC I just don't tune in to the next frequency when I'm in cruise if I'll be away from the computer so no issue with step climbs.  How does PROATC-X handle this?  I understand there's a bit of a co-pilot feature, would this take care of asking for step climbs>?  Or would the PMDG auto step climb feature cause PROATC trouble?

 

I mostly fly in North America, so any additional comments about how this works for North American procedures would be welcome.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT; Just realized I got the product name backwards, should be PROATC-X of course!  Not sure if you can fix that or not mods.

[Jim Young 2,356]

One of the best features of ProATC-X IMHO is the co-pilot feature where he/she will handle everything.  Step climbing, lights, landing gear, commo, takeoff and landing, to name a few.  The program has the option to turn these off and let you, the pilot-in-command, to handle.  You will still have to handle the flaps and for the heavies, the FMC.  I know co-pilots handle these functions too but it would be difficult to simulate.  Once your aircraft is in the air, for the pMDG 777, he/she will pull up the landing gear and place the aircraft into autopilot.  After you retract the flaps, you can be like me and go to the kitchen and make yourself a TV dinner, and, after consuming it, take a short nap (depending on the flight plan) and be back in front of the computer on final approach as the co-pilot brings it down to final approach, sets the com/nav frequencies, and puts the aircraft in autopilot for landing.   I have even let the co-pilot land the aircraft but I usually take over and push the F-2 key soon after touchdown.  I have to retract the flaps and lower the spoiler too and turn off the landing lights too.  Perhaps in an update he'll get these chores too.

 

You set up the flight plan.  ProATC-X does not set up the flight plan for you.  You have a lot of options including not even using a SID/STAR.  But vectoring will normally be done by the controller and the co-pilot will of course do all the vectoring for you until you are on final approach.  When told what runway you will be landing at, he'll change the NAV frequencies for you and set your aircraft into APP mode for landing.  ProATC works best with the default aircraft (heavies) but works well with PMDG and the i-Fly 747 too.  Oh, he lowers the speed too during the descent phases.  You just have to watch your co-pilot (as in real life) and make sure he is accomplishing his duties promptly and correctly.  Some times I might have to speed up the rate of descent and keep the aircraft trimmed properly.  In heavy weather, ProATC-X does not excel.  But, like in real life, the pilot usually takes over when the weather gets really bad and manually brings the aircraft in. 

 

I need to add too that the co-pilot does not always start the descent as determined by the FMC so you have to watch this.  If he does not begin the descent, you simply click on the '1' key and select the first option "initialize descent".  When you do this, the co-pilot will ask ATC to descend and the controller will approve (in most cases) and the co-pilot will then begin the descent to the FL as dictated by the ATC Controller.  I like to begin my descent further out than what is intended in the FMC programming so ask 20 or 30 miles out permission to being descent.

 

Best regards,

[hesynergy 67]

I got to say that even though a lot of folks have been touting the virtues of ProATC( I am still waiting for my P3D V3 upgrade to voxATC ), I just resurrected my Radar Contact, dusted it off and installed it on my WideFs laptop in the home theater machine and I'm just loving this puppy. I Transmit the sound of the controllers to my flying PC via Stream What You Hear SWYH... http://www.streamwhatyouhear.com

 

Cheers,

 

Chas

[regis9 4,014]

Thanks guys (and thanks Jim for fixing my post title, I presume that was you).

 

In terms of step climbs, will the co-pilot call ATC for permission to climb when the aircraft reaches a planned step climb?  I'm not worried so much about the aircraft climbing (as I know the PMDG 777 will climb by itself), more whether the co-pilot will check in with ATC for permission for the step climb so ATC doesn't get all out of whack.

 

In terms of aircraft, you mentioned it works well with default and also PMDG/iFly.  I read on the PROATC-X website it works with the aerosoft airbus too.  What about others, is there something that doesn't work with other payware addons or is it pretty universal?  I spend a lot of time in the NGX, 777 and Aerosoft Airbus, but I also like to fly the Majestic Q400, various captainsim aircraft, and even IFR flights in GA aircraft sometime.

 

I should add that I do have Radar Contact and do use it from time to time, but predominantly I fly with default ATC right now.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Jim Young 2,356]

You supposedly can set it up for any aircraft you want to set up but I think you will run into a lot of problems, for instance, setting up the Majestic Q400.  The various CS aircraft will work (as they are heavies) but the co-pilot cannot manage all of the functions such as turning on lights, raising the gear, setting the AP and LNAV/VNAV.  Many of the functions will work but no guarantee.  The program was made for the default and then later updates set up PMDG and i-Fly and the Airbus.  I think the program has to be specifically programmed for a particular aircraft in order for all of the functions to work.  The PMDG 737-700 and 800 work well but not the PMDG 737-900.  ProATC is limited in what it can and cannot do.  It is not compatible with every addon ever developed. 

 

For step climbing, I suspect you are thinking the co-pilot asks ATC to go to FL100, the 120, the 180.  No, that will never ever happen.  Your flight plan which you developed in the ProATC-X program (or imported from another program) shows the cruise altitude.  ATC will step you up to that altitude a little at a time and the co-pilot will respond with the instructions to climb to that altitude and change the altitude on the panel.

 

ProATC-X will never be a perfect program that works for everyone.  I heard it works best in the European countries as that's where the developer is located.  I have had good success with it in the US except when the weather is nasty then it seems to have a memory lapse.  I used it mainly for flights between KLAX and KSFO and KORD and KSTL.  It won't work at all trying to get into KORD as that area is resource intense.  It'll give you a runway and a STAR but good luck landing!  Just an ugly, ugly area to play...

 

Radar Contact is a very good program and I would stay with that program.  You will probably not be very happy with ProATC-X as it does not always use the proper procedures and it does not work in every aircraft like Radar Contact.  If it worked for GA aircraft or aircraft like the Majestic Q400, or the Concord, you would see many of the experts working on the program providing downloads to upgrade the aircraft that can be used with ProATC but they do not.  This evidently has to be programmed by the developer.  I was hoping many of the users who were able to get GA aircraft to work would share their expertise and allow the import of their aircraft setup but I have not seen it so far.  I like the program because of the co-pilot features and the fact I fly mainly PMDG aircraft and it fits in with my enjoyment of flight simulation the most.  Many others like GA stuff or really, really old aircraft.  Bottom line - the program has a lot of potential but it will never ever be a Radar Contact (and I do not think it is trying to be a replacement for Radar Contact).

 

Best regards,

[mr340 56]

You supposedly can set it up for any aircraft you want to set up but I think you will run into a lot of problems, for instance, setting up the Majestic Q400.  The various CS aircraft will work (as they are heavies) but the co-pilot cannot manage all of the functions such as turning on lights, raising the gear, setting the AP and LNAV/VNAV.  Many of the functions will work but no guarantee.  The program was made for the default and then later updates set up PMDG and i-Fly and the Airbus.  I think the program has to be specifically programmed for a particular aircraft in order for all of the functions to work.  The PMDG 737-700 and 800 work well but not the PMDG 737-900.  ProATC is limited in what it can and cannot do.  It is not compatible with every addon ever developed. 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Hi Jim, so ProATC X works with out a problem with all PMDG aircraft ?

[tf51d 284]

You set up the flight plan. ProATC-X does not set up the flight plan for you.

 

PROATC-X actually does have that option, and mostly does a pretty good job, by hitting the pre-calculate button. There are 4 ways to build a flightplan in PROATC-X, The fore mentioned pre-calculate button will auto build a flightplan, including SID/STAR. You can enter one manually, You can copy and paste one in from another source like Flightaware, or you can import an FS flightplan file. In each case PROATC-X will assign SID/STAR, which you can select another manually if you like. Note though, PROATC-X may still assign a different one in flight if weather conditions warrant.

[regis9 4,014]

Thanks everyone.  In terms of third party aircraft working or not working with PROATC-X, are the issues primarily with the autopilot or are there issues with the ATC portion of the program too?  For example I use FS2Crew with the Q400, so I wouldn't be interested in the co-pilot for that particular aircraft, just the ATC.

 

In terms of step climbing, I don't mean the intermediate assigned altitude on the way to the cruise in the flightplan.  What I'm referring to is when your initial cruise is FL320, then at some point during the flight (as the plan burns fuel and become slighter) the flightplan would have a step cruise altitude of FL340 and so on.

[Jim Young 2,356]

Hi Jim, so ProATC X works with out a problem with all PMDG aircraft ?

Hi Mr Leny!  Definitely not.  In fact as I stated, in my comments above, the co-pilot does not control things in the 737-900 like he does in the PMDG 737-800 or 700.  Different panels I think.  I cannot remember what functions work and do not work but think one was changing the altitude for climbs and descents.

 

 

Thanks everyone.  In terms of third party aircraft working or not working with PROATC-X, are the issues primarily with the autopilot or are there issues with the ATC portion of the program too?  For example I use FS2Crew with the Q400, so I wouldn't be interested in the co-pilot for that particular aircraft, just the ATC.

 

In terms of step climbing, I don't mean the intermediate assigned altitude on the way to the cruise in the flightplan.  What I'm referring to is when your initial cruise is FL320, then at some point during the flight (as the plan burns fuel and become slighter) the flightplan would have a step cruise altitude of FL340 and so on.

As far as I know, ProATC-X does not work with the Q400.  In any case, you either have the co-pilot functions or do not.  So, if you do not want them before a flight with a particular aircraft (that works in ProATC-X), you just go into the options sections and uncheck all of the duties you don't want the co-pilot to handle.

 

If you want to change the cruising altitude, click on the 1 key and that will give you other options and you can select request increase in my altitude to FL340.  Sometimes the controller does not allow it mainly because he doesn't think he/she can get you back down in time from that altitude.

 

Best regards,

[hychewright 46]

Will PROATC-X work with smaller regional airlines and also GA aircraft ?  Thanks

[Bobsk8 12,735]

I got to say that even though a lot of folks have been touting the virtues of ProATC( I am still waiting for my P3D V3 upgrade to voxATC ), I just resurrected my Radar Contact, dusted it off and installed it on my WideFs laptop in the home theater machine and I'm just loving this puppy. I Transmit the sound of the controllers to my flying PC via Stream What You Hear SWYH... http://www.streamwhatyouhear.com

 

Cheers,

 

Chas

 

 

I had a copy of Radar Contact from my FSX days, when it was Ok at that time. I tried it recently, and compared to Pro ATC, to me it was archaic. Pro ATC has so many features, that Radar Contact never had, and it is constantly being updated. 

Hi Mr Leny!  Definitely not.  In fact as I stated, in my comments above, the co-pilot does not control things in the 737-900 like he does in the PMDG 737-800 or 700.  Different panels I think.  I cannot remember what functions work and do not work but think one was changing the altitude for climbs and descents.

 

 

As far as I know, ProATC-X does not work with the Q400.  In any case, you either have the co-pilot functions or do not.  So, if you do not want them before a flight with a particular aircraft (that works in ProATC-X), you just go into the options sections and uncheck all of the duties you don't want the co-pilot to handle.

 

If you want to change the cruising altitude, click on the 1 key and that will give you other options and you can select request increase in my altitude to FL340.  Sometimes the controller does not allow it mainly because he doesn't think he/she can get you back down in time from that altitude.

 

Best regards,

 

The only thing I use the co pilot for in Pro ATC is switching radio frequencies and responding to ATC. The program works great for that function with the Q400, Airbus, and PMDG 737. 

[mr340 56]

Thanks Jim, i think i might give a try. It's been a while since i use any ATC. It kind of feel lonely flying without ATC.

By the way does proatc assign gates\parking next to your airline parking?

[cannonplug 126]

 

 

By the way does proatc assign gates\parking next to your airline parking?

 

I don't know whether ProATC assigns gates based on the codes in the scenery, but what you can definitely do when setting up your flightplan is select your preferred gate at the destination airport. ProATC will then send you to that gate and clear any AI that might otherwise be occupying it.

[Bobsk8 12,735]

 

Thanks Jim, i think i might give a try. It's been a while since i use any ATC. It kind of feel lonely flying without ATC.

By the way does proatc assign gates\parking next to your airline parking?

 

 

It assigns gates according to what you  are flying, but you can change the assignments when you create the flight plan. 

[Urshult Haze 4]

Just discovered this one yesterday:

 

http://www.avsim.com/forum/713-official-pilot2atc-users-forum/

 

Might be an option  :smile: