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Displaced Runway(s) and mismatched ILS data

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This morning flying into KORD for the first time in the NGX I ran into an issue. My navdata is what came with the plane. I already have all the paper charts for a period in 2007 so I don't want to have new navdata and old FSX database issues.

 

Anyhow I find out runway 9L is in use. So I program runway 9L into the FMC as ILS approach. Well the visibility is nothing until 800' AGL so I'm confused as to why the LOC isn't coming alive. It wasn't the best approach since based on winds I expected a different runway (14) but whatever. So I took the time to pull up the map and peek at the ILS frequencies. It's the same as my chart, 110.50 but the FMC lists 111.75. So I had tuned the right ILS in but despite the mismatch it wasn't lined up. So I ended up going around and on the turn back captured the LOC. Come to find out the runway is way off to the left according to the FMC programmed database. Had I let RNAV carry me down I'd be way off. I was way off anyhow with the ILS.

 

I haven't had this problem with other airports. That database that came with the NGX should be really close to the FSX data shouldn't it? How do I fix that? I could understand a major overhaul of the airport but it's not that old compared to FSX. Confused.

 

Also can I find navdata that matches the time period to FSX or no? I'd like to put that in the FMC

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That database that came with the NGX should be really close to the FSX data shouldn't it?

 

No. The NGX nav data without updates should be around 2011, I think. FSX data is around 2005.

 

 

 


How do I fix that?

 

Update your nav data and airport files.

 

 

 


I could understand a major overhaul of the airport but it's not that old compared to FSX. Confused.

 

Changing a frequency on a LOC array isn't that complex, actually. They change on occasion around the world.

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I know they can change the frequencies. I was in amateur radio for years. Radio is pretty easy for me to understand. What I'm confused about is how updating the NGX database to get a newer AIRAC is gonna help with displaced runways and ILS frequencies. It's already 6 years newer according to you, so adding more years to that means more misalignment. Right?

 

Do I simply need to update the magvar file in FSX for the runway displacement? And unless I change the default data with that guys other navdata on his website, the ILS and other things will be off, correct?? Or simply change the info with AFCADs.

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Do I simply need to update the magvar file in FSX for the runway displacement?

 

Would help.

 

 

 


And unless I change the default data with that guys other navdata on his website, the ILS and other things will be off, correct??

 

Could be. I'm not sure who "that guy" is though, so I can't say for sure.

 

 

 


Or simply change the info with AFCADs.

 

This usually gets you the best result.

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This morning flying into KORD for the first time in the NGX I ran into an issue

Since 2009 I have used FSX KORD, FSDT(Payware) and FSDT Update (Payware). The three airports have never agreed with the real KORD or the Navigraph data for the FMC. KORD is constantly doing some kind of updating - building new runways, closing runways, renumbering runways, changing frequencies, and doing the same type of stuff to the taxiways. I imagine that everything in the real word agrees but in the sim world it is a mess. Even payware airports can't keep up with what is going on at KORD. I don't believe the two parallel NE-SW runways and the two parallel NW-SE runways have changed. The four parallel W-E have changed considerably. Good luck.

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Kyle, that guy is the one who releasing the magvar and other files. I don't recall his website. He has a BGL file that updates navdata on some level but it can cause problems. I don't recall his name and I'm on my phone.

 

Micheal, it sounds like I need to stop servicing KORD ;-) lol

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Micheal, it sounds like I need to stop servicing KORD ;-) lol
I believe the only E-W runway that has remained the same for FSX default to real world KORD is 10-28in FSX or 10L-28R in the real world. It is the long one of about 13000 ft. I still use KORD but I stay away from the north E-W runways which are short. The two southern parallel runways are not in FSX default nor in the updated KORD from FSDT. I just stay from anything that is an E-W runway.

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I believe the only E-W runway that has remained the same for FSX default to real world KORD is 10-28in FSX or 10L-28R in the real world. It is the long one of about 13000 ft. I still use KORD but I stay away from the north E-W runways which are short. The two southern parallel runways are not in FSX default nor in the updated KORD from FSDT. I just stay from anything that is an E-W runway.

Yes, the default FSX KORD bears little resemblance to the airport as it currently exists.

 

Runway 14L / 32R is permanently closed - (though for some reason, the ILS approaches are still shown in current NOS charts).

 

14R / 32L is about 3000 feet shorter than it used to be.

 

The three southern runways are either completely rebuilt, or entirely new. In fact the middle runway of the southern group, 10C / 28C occupies land where hangars and parking ramps used to exist. (And still do in default FSX / P3D)

 

Many ILS frequencies have changed.

 

Unfortunately, no payware KORD add-on reflects the current layout accurately. The construction is continuously ongoing....

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Runway 14L / 32R is permanently closed - (though for some reason, the ILS approaches are still shown in current NOS charts).
I don't know what NOS means. On the FAA charts it is shown in the Airport Diagram and still shows ILS Approaches to both runways. Same on the LIDO charts. And it still shows ILS Approaches for both runways in the Navigraph FMS data as of 1602 and it is still on the Google satellite image with no Xs painted on it (I don't know the date of the image). I guess a lot of things besides FSDT KORD UPDATE need to be updated. I thought it was still there.

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I don't know what NOS means. On the FAA charts it is shown in the Airport Diagram and still shows ILS Approaches to both runways. Same on the LIDO charts. And it still shows ILS Approaches for both runways in the Navigraph FMS data as of 1602 and it is still on the Google satellite image with no Xs painted on it (I don't know the date of the image). I guess a lot of things besides FSDT KORD UPDATE need to be updated. I thought it was still there.

NOS is the US government charting service. They provide the free approach charts available from sites like Skyvector, Airnav etc.

 

14L/32R is definitely and permanently closed, and has been since May 1, 2015. The google Maps photos may not be recent enough to show anything.

 

Here are the NOTAMS for the associated approach navaids, just downloaded today, March 2nd:

 

ORD NAV ILS RWY 14L LOC/GP/DME/IM DECOMMISSIONED 1505011425-PERM

 

ORD NAV ILS RWY 32R GP/LOC/OM DECOMMISSIONED 1505011404-PERM

 

These state that the ILS Localizers, Glideslopes and Outer Markers were permanently decommissioned on May 1, 2015. There are other NOTAMS on the same site indicating that the associated approach lighting systems, runway lighting, and PAPI lights were all permanently decommissioned last August. It's a mystery as to why all of the charting and Nav data sites still show the two ILS approaches, as the associated ground equipment does not even exist anymore.

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To Michael Cubine:

Michael,

I flew the PMDG LH Cargo B777 yesterday from Fairbanks to Chicago and ran into the same problem (misplaced runway and incorrect ILS frequency). I used runway 28L and was at least 4 to 500 feet to the left of the runway, of course never intercepted the glideslope. I als have FSDT KORD (payware) and thought that that should take care of the FSX / Navigraph rwy/ILS problem. Obviously NOT.

Q: have you done anything else to utilize runways at O'Hare? Or are you still staying away from the E - W runways?

Btw, the FMC ILS frequency was 110.75, ident IIDN and in FSX 110.5 ident IIAC

Thanks for reply

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I used runway 28L and was at least 4 to 500 feet to the left of the runway,

 

I don't think hijacking an old thread is the best way to address a problem, but let me give it a try.

FSDT Ohare is out of date, both runways and even taxiways are different now.  When you use current navdata you need to understand the differences. Best way is to look at the FSDT documentation, note page 6 is the airport diagram for the scenery. Note it has a RNW 28 and a RNW 27L as the only two E W runways.  Most approaches I fly are to RNW 28 which is known today as RNW 28R.  Therefore, you should select the approach for RNW 28R landing at the scenery RNW 28, and it works without frequency changing or damaging the grass.

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Q: have you done anything else to utilize runways at O'Hare? Or are you still staying away from the E - W runways?

Btw, the FMC ILS frequency was 110.75, ident IIDN and in FSX 110.5 ident IIAC

Thanks for reply

I believe downscc answered your question about 28L. And yes, I still stay away from the E-W short runways and the NW-SE runways. The NE-SW runways are still okay to use. FSDT is going to update KORD sometime in the future but unless KORD stops messing with the runways, it will probably be out of dare when it is released

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Hi,

 

I have one more question/problem:

In the FSX "Facility Information" for ORD there are 19 runways listed (some of them with a length of 10feet). For flights I am using Aivlasoft's EFB to generate charts, routes and airport maps. How can I get the number of runways to agree in FSX and the EFB? The Chicago airport is FSDT's payware.Attached are screenshots of the EFB & FSX airport data.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141330124@N05/shares/uD28xX

 

Thanks for help

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Hi,

Since I am flying with Aivlasoft EFB I need to create a runway correction in a runway text file, but I am unsure of which scenery data (FSDT) runway identifier to assign to the navigation (Navigraph) data runway identifier. There are a total of 7 runways in the FSDT O'hare airport data. So, if 28 is now 28R, could you share the remaining changes? Also, is there a way to get the assigned ILS frequencies and identifiers from the navigraph data?

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Hi,

I am getting completely confused/frustrated with ORD! If I am looking in my airport map (Aivlasoft EFB), which I assume originates from FSDT O'Hare, I see 3 (three) E/W runways 27R/09L; 27L/09R and 28/10.

The navigation data I have shows the following runways which can't be assigned: 10L/28R, 10C/28C, 10R/28L and 15/33. I don't know if the NW/SE runways 32R/14L & 32L/14R are ok in the navigation data?

According to the EFB data provider the following runways are available: 04l/22R, 04R/22L, 10/28, 09R/27L, 09L/27R, 14L/32R & 14R/32L.

Can anyone decipher this runway mess.

Thanks a bunch for help


I forgot to add the supporting screenshots

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141330124@N05/shares/Lw4SUp

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Michael,

Since I spend money on FSDT O'Hare Airport, I will most certainly figure it out one way or another. The problem is certainly not interpreting the runway layout of present O'Hare airport (your link), but to create a runway exception text file entry that is correct between scenery (FSDT) and EFB; that's where it gets confusing.

So, I will most certainly ignore your "well meant" suggestion and try another avenue.

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So, I will most certainly ignore your "well meant" suggestion and try another avenue.

Try FSDT Forum at the link in post #17. If you were going to get an answer here I think you would have gotten it by now. Umberto at FSDT who would reply to your post is a pretty sharp guy.

 

Just copy/paste the pertinent information from here into your post at FSDT. No need to retype your information again.

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try another avenue

I saw your posts at Aivlasoft's Support Forum. You can't land on 33. That's why there are no approach procedures. An approach and landing on 33 would go right over the top of 28R and 23C.

 

It's kind of like 18/36 at EDDF. The only thing you can do on that strip of concrete is takeoff to the south.

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Michael,

That was actually the last curve ball with the O'Hare runways. What was strange, that Navigraph's data showed NO frequency for an ILS approach, but the EFB had the old 32L frequencey listed. I finally got it straightened out by a moderator on the Navigraph forum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Hare_In ... al_Airport and http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... tening.pdf

At this point I just set 32L to nil and 14R to 15 in the runway.txt file. I guess we just have to wait for FSDT to update the O'Hare scenery.

Thanks again

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