Discussion of HDR & Bloom in P3D

[Adamski_NZ 952]

I've moved this subset here for clarity - 

 

Thanks, Vic - much appreciated!

 

Adam.

[Seria17hri11er 15]

If it's any help, here are my P3D config entries:

 

[GRAPHICS]

HDR_BRIGHTNESS=1.100000

HDR_BLOOM_THRESHOLD=3.000000

HDR_BLOOM_MAGNITUDE=0.300000

HDR_BLOOM_BLUR_SIGMA=0.800000

TONEMAP_DAY_EXPOSURE_KEY=0.280000

TONEMAP_NIGHT_EXPOSURE_KEY=0.130000

HDR_SATURATION=0.800000

 

 

 

Hey Cruachan,  I tried that last night. I like it.  Thanks for sharing.  On RSP I use Highest terrain brights because VC shadows are too dark otherwise.

[Jimm 437]

Has anyone actually considered the remote possibility that an improperly calibrated screen can exacerbate the HDR issue people are having?  I only ask because I visit AVSIM both from at home and at work, so I see the images posted here through two different monitors.  At home, my display is professionally calibrated (primarily for graphics and photography work) and at work, it's all default settings so I DO notice differences in what people have submitted.  Now, take the calibration under consideration and couple it with whatever settings you may  or may not be using and presto, you get a result that is either good or bad.  I hear a lot about too much color or brightness, which is easily controlled within the HDR settings of P3D.  LM has done a decent job refining that functionality, and to be honest, on my end with my display settings and P3D settings, I can run saturation and bloom much higher and it actually makes things better looking.  Granted, I can post screenshots here of what I see, but you may see something different.

 

Make sense?

[Adamski_NZ 952]

Has anyone actually considered the remote possibility that an improperly calibrated screen can exacerbate the HDR issue people are having? 

 

It does make sense but to me - but reminds of a question I've been meaning to ask for months (It's kind of related - honest!!).

 

I appreciate HDR (and RSP) settings actaully change the palette in P3D - and that a screenshot will properly record those values.

 

However - if I change anything (contrast, brightness etc.) in the Windows desktop, the output to the monitor reflects those changes (and looks good) - but the saved screenshot ignores these settings and appears to use some P3D default <?>.

 

Am I being really stupid - and doing something fundamentally wrong? How can I make the saved screenshot save what is actually being sent out to monitor via my GFX card?

 

I'm aware that fiddling with the [physical] monitor settings (ie. on the monitor itself) can't possibly affect a saved image - but I do feel there ought to be a way of saving what the card produces - as modified by the Windows CP.

 

Adam.

[Jimm 437]

It does make sense but to me - but reminds of a question I've been meaning to ask for months (It's kind of related - honest!!).

 

I appreciate HDR (and RSP) settings actaully change the palette in P3D - and that a screenshot will properly record those values.

 

However - if I change anything (contrast, brightness etc.) in the Windows desktop, the output to the monitor reflects those changes (and looks good) - but the saved screenshot ignores these settings and appears to use some P3D default <?>.

 

Am I being really stupid - and doing something fundamentally wrong? How can I make the saved screenshot save what is actually being sent out to monitor via my GFX card?

 

I'm aware that fiddling with the [physical] monitor settings (ie. on the monitor itself) can't possibly affect a saved image - but I do feel there ought to be a way of saving what the card produces - as modified by the Windows CP.

 

Adam.

That is a very good question, to which I don't have a definitive answer at present.  I never gave that much thought either, which lends credence to how we perceive what is seen on our screens.  What may look fantastic to one person might be bad to another.  Even if we all lived by one set of settings, I am pretty sure we'd still see the screenshots differently.  At work, I have a dual monitor setup and I racked my brain one day trying to get both monitors set to the same settings.  One is a different model than the other and even with just adjusting brightness, color temp and contrast, I get two different variations...rather frustrating.

[sightseer 895]

Ok well, this is the problem really. We all have different monitors and who knows what each of us are set for. I have an inexpensive monitor with color temp set to neutral and Im using one of the presets called 'graphics'. I really think that professional calibration may be counter intuitive because most people wont have that same calibration. Most people will have a monitor and a driver and they'll use the settings that the in crowd tell them to. Whether its right or not, that's generally what happens.

 

I know that NVidia CP color adjustments will show up in screenshots and Ive never adjusted windows colors. I again go back to the 'default hits a wider audience' concept.

 

In the end, we cant all see the same thing. (I don't think...could be wrong...as always)

 

EDIT: not to say that professional calibration is wrong. its the best one can get Im sure but if the goal is to make someone else see perfection then it probably cant happen.

[Jimm 437]

Ok well, this is the problem really. We all have different monitors and who knows what each of us are set for. I have an inexpensive monitor with color temp set to neutral and Im using one of the presets called 'graphics'. I really think that professional calibration may be counter intuitive because most people wont have that same calibration. Most people will have a monitor and a driver and they'll use the settings that the in crowd tell them to. Whether its right or not, that's generally what happens.

 

I know that NVidia CP color adjustments will show up in screenshots and Ive never adjusted windows colors. I again go back to the 'default hits a wider audience' concept.

 

In the end, we cant all see the same thing. (I don't think...could be wrong...as always)

 

EDIT: not to say that professional calibration is wrong. its the best one can get Im sure but if the goal is to make someone else see perfection then it probably cant happen.

I wear glasses, so I guess I'm further screwed. lol

[sightseer 895]

 

join the club. I have an incredibly rare eyesight disorder that I fight with. I get by I think.

 

(and I need glasses )

[Jimm 437]

join the club. I have an incredibly rare eyesight disorder that I fight with. I get by I think.

 

(and I need glasses )

Is it just coincidence your username is sightseer then?

 

Kidding of course.  I have gone through many a discussion about issues with monitor calibrations, what people see, accuracy of color, etc.  I have to echo what what you stated about getting screenshots to come out correctly, but that sounds like a tough thing to do.

[Seria17hri11er 15]

I can't afford a device to calibrate my monitor.  I really wish I had one though.  But this is hands down the best website I was able to find to help you--immensely--calibrate your monitor.

 

Includes images and in depth explanations for checking and adjusting:

 

Contrast

 

Clock and Phase (for VGA)

 

Sharpness

 

Gamma

 

Black Level

 

White Saturation

 

Gradient (Banding)

 

Inversion (pixel-walk)

 

Response time

Quick Response time check

Response time test - ghosting

Input lag test

 

Viewing Angle

 

Contrast ratio

 

Subpixel layout

 

 

It's not hard, and includes lots of instructions.  It does take time, though.  Be prepared to spend 30 minutes to an hour on it.  Some steps you might want to skip.

 

 

 

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

[Adamski_NZ 952]

I know that NVidia CP color adjustments will show up in screenshots and Ive never adjusted windows colors. I again go back to the 'default hits a wider audience' concept.

 

 

No luck here .  I forgot to add when I said changing Windows Desktop colours, that I actually meant via the nVidia CP (!!) ... but anyway ... the settings are *not* saved (on my system at least).

 

Neither the traditional "V" key capture nor the basic Ctrl-PrtScrn method saves the image with the tweaked values. The output to the monitor is different, but when you compare the screenshots on another PC, they're identical.

 

Adam.

[JimmiG 244]

Even if you could record the Windows brightness, contrast etc. settings in screenshots, it would look different on every monitor because you're only changing what is being sent out. It's up to the monitor to decide how to best display it. Monitors output differently, even if they receive the same picture, and it's also affected by the settings on the actual monitor front panel.

 

HDR definitely complicates the sharing of screenshots, compared to just a fixed 24-bit color pallette. If your monitor is dark, you might turn up the HDR brightness and vice-versa.

[Adamski_NZ 952]

Even if you could record the Windows brightness, contrast etc. settings in screenshots, it would look different on every monitor because you're only changing what is being sent out. It's up to the monitor to decide how to best display it. Monitors output differently, even if they receive the same picture, and it's also affected by the settings on the actual monitor front panel.

 

HDR definitely complicates the sharing of screenshots, compared to just a fixed 24-bit color pallette. If your monitor is dark, you might turn up the HDR brightness and vice-versa.

 

Yes - I agree different monitor settings will affect what each of us see - I take that as a given - regardless of what we do to the image at source or later in post-production.

 

My question is asked precisely because I find HDR just too contrasty overall. Turning up the HDR brightness levels only makes things worse as it bleaches out whole areas of the image, while leaving the shadow/dark tones largely alone.

 

All I want to do (if I use HDR at all) is to moderate this overly contrasty side-effect and have the same values applied to the screenshots. Obviously I can correct a lot of this after the event in Photoshop, but an over-contasty image has already lost a lot of information (in highlight and shadow areas) - it simply won't be there - it will be "clipped".

 

Adam.

[Novation 534]

I wish LM would separate HDR from the other visual controls. I don't understand why you are forced to have HDR adaptation on in order to control Bloom, Brightness and Saturation. With other games I play HDR is often, if not always a separate option to all the other visual elements.

 

It would be nice to have a fixed exposure point from which to work from, without the need to use other tools such as reshade.

 

As for Bloom, I turn it off as it exaggerates the adaptation effect even more. If this was not the case I would use a little, as I think it adds a nice touch, helping to give the visuals a bit of pop. I agree its not a natural effect we usually see (glare is something else) unless we are tied, or have an eye condition

[sightseer 895]

the trouble with HDR Bloom in P3Dv3.2 is that it changes the hue, saturation and brightness of the original intended color. the brightness only effects brightness and the saturation only effects saturation (from what I can tell) but Bloom modifies everything. It is needed IMO because things just look too flat otherwise. HDR off has more pop.

 

On one hand I wish theyd change it but right now Ive taken a new approach which is to start with a given bloom which is .85 in my case and now I am trying to design a sky and clouds around that setting. Im liking what I see so far.

 

Novation - do you make your own clouds as well as skies?