B350i King Air GTN 750

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Sorry I deleted a bunch more old PM's - message me again with your emails

[annber 10]

Hi Ryan, here it goes,

BTW, the screen you posted looks great, look forward to trying it and thanks for sharing your work.

Bernardo.

[eelb 5]

What baffles me is proline works for me Direct To is something I dont loose sleep over but for basic systems from the CJ2 on its gotten pretty good for a casual simming and you know I would be the first to complain about it  :wink:

I don't understand it either. The AP works differently, other than that I have had no problems. Maybe it's just more love for the GTN, rather than hate for the Proline.

[eelb 5]

 

 

If you are going to provide a FLC mode then it should operate correctly and not hunt or cause an immediate descent. 

 

Sounds like pilot technique to me.  The FLC is squirrelly below 10,000 feet, when the airplane is rapidly accelerating. The trick on the CJ2 is to climb through 10,000 in VS mode, with the ROC set at 4,000 fpm. Wait for the IAS to decrease to 230 KIAS, and then engage FLC. Maintain 230kts until reaching FL250, then reduce to 200kts passing through FL300. Reduce 20kts for every 5,000 ft of altitude. If climbing to FL450, your IAS should be near 140kts at the TOC. This works out to about to about Mach .54 throughout the climb above FL250. The one issue I have is lack of a Mach hold with the FLC, but I'm not sure the prototype CJ2 has one either.

hm, that's tough.

I bought the 350i as well, just because I'm a King Air fan. Quite immersive to fly at night and the FDE is quite OK.

FLC works fine, if you are not too rough with power changes. Haven't tried VNAV yet. I don't really need it in a King Air and I do not really expect it to work correctly.

NAV Mode works Ok as well, initially it intercepts the route quite well. You have to made sure to activate NV mode at a reasonable intercept angle. If you activate NAV mode just "somewhere", it won't work. But the plane does follow SID/Route/Approach procedure nicely, no complaint here.

Sure enough PL21/FMS 3000 is Carenado style. I'm convinced regarding authenticity the Milviz 350i will come much closer.

 

If we are looking at Turboprop simulations, well, don't believe anything you see regarding engine behaviour and parameters, but that's not Carenados fault. It's basically the same in a RealAir TDuke, even though they have found some, how shall I say : Workarounds.

 

Simple example : At idle power the real King Air starts rolling. So does the Carenado 350i. If not, users would complain. But the FS Turboprop engine doesn't know Beta Range. So what to do to keep it a reasonable taxi speed ? Constantly work on the brakes not really a good idea in the real plane. So it is not easy, if you are not capable to include custom workarounds. Does anyone really expect that from Carenado ?

 

I'm OK with the Carenado 350i "interpretation". Nice fill-in for King Air fans until the Milviz gets released. Not more, not less.

 

Mike

The thing with turboprops, and this has it's genesis in the era when MSFS didn't have a turboprop among the stock airplanes, is the absence of the simulation of  increased ITT with altitude. Where ITT becomes the limiting factor rather than torque. I tend to believe all turboprop air files are developed from pure jets. I don't have the computer knowledge to prove that, it's just a gut feeling from flying various FS turboprops over the past 25 years.

I have the 750 installed into the panel, but lost the engine gauges in the process...so I'm still at square 1.

I'm curious why the usual mod is replace the Proline MFD with the GTN-750. The more practicable placement would be to place the GTN to the right of the MFD, where the old NAV/COM stack is. This is how it's done on old Citations. However, very few turbine airplanes with a Proline 21, have a need for a stand alone GPS. 

Hello Ryan

 

That looks very nice.

Question: Is there a way to hide rhe GTN radios?

 

( I tried in my own implementation but can't do it yet)

 

Cheers.

That would be a GTN-725. 

[riwig 3]

HI Ryan,

Just bought the 350i and would be happy if you can share the GTN750 integration. PM sent.

Richard

[KenG 492]

Sounds like pilot technique to me.  The FLC is squirrelly below 10,000 feet, when the airplane is rapidly accelerating. The trick on the CJ2 is to climb through 10,000 in VS mode, with the ROC set at 4,000 fpm. Wait for the IAS to decrease to 230 KIAS, and then engage FLC. Maintain 230kts until reaching FL250, then reduce to 200kts passing through FL300. Reduce 20kts for every 5,000 ft of altitude. If climbing to FL450, your IAS should be near 140kts at the TOC. This works out to about to about Mach .54 throughout the climb above FL250. The one issue I have is lack of a Mach hold with the FLC, but I'm not sure the prototype CJ2 has one either.

The thing with turboprops, and this has it's genesis in the era when MSFS didn't have a turboprop among the stock airplanes, is the absence of the simulation of  increased ITT with altitude. Where ITT becomes the limiting factor rather than torque. I tend to believe all turboprop air files are developed from pure jets. I don't have the computer knowledge to prove that, it's just a gut feeling from flying various FS turboprops over the past 25 years.

 

 

I am basing my opinion of how FLC should work based on how it works in the real King Air. I seem to have the mistaken idea that if you are going to call something by its trademarked name, "Pro Line 21" then it should work like the real avionics. 

 

Different turboprop engines operate a little differently when you look at gauge output. The problem surfaces when you try to build a generic simulation that covers all turboprop engines. The differences in a Garret, Allison and Pratt and Whitney surface as glaring inaccuracies. There is also a huge misunderstanding throughout the community on the relationship of ITT or TGT and altitude. You have to understand what the power levers are really doing. While we read and set torque (as a limiting setting) the power levers are really setting N1 speed. When I set a power lever position N1 is the constant. ITT/TGT will be based on the thermodynamic operation of the engine and has a relationship of outside air temperature and pressure to thermodynamic efficiency of the engine. On a cool morning near sea level the engine will operate cooler then on a hot day in Denver. More importantly the propellers will be more efficient in  cool dense air as opposed to warm less dense air. This will wildly vary the torque read on the gauges. In the example of a cool morning at sea level I can normally achieve maximum torque prior to the engine reaching its thermodynamic limit whereas on a warm day in Denver I may reach the ITT/TGT limit first. As the turboprop climbs the propeller enters less dense air and we see a drop in torque, however N1 and ITT/TGT remains relatively stable and fuel flow starts to decline. It is the pilot who then tends to increase power lever movement to regain the lost torque on the engine that causes an increase in N1 and ITT/TGT. 

 

The general consensus of the community has this backward, it is not ITT that increases it is torque that decreases with altitude. What you are seeing is the result of the pilot managing the engine and increasing power and just like my ground example in the air the engine will make the swap between ITT/TGT i.e. thermodynamic limit verse torque or gear reduction limit. What altitude depends on the submodel of PT6A. i.e. a PT6A-52 will keep maximum power at a  higher altitude then a PT6A-42.

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Nice explanation Ken.

 

If anyone tried to PM me about the GTN mods, my inbox was full (again!) - goes to show how badly people want functioning navigational equipment in these gorgeous birds!

[lsummer101 1]

 I Would like to say thanks to Ryan for the GTN mod he sent me it works perfect !!!! i am stoked!!! 

 

RYAN YOU ROCK 

 

THANKS 

LEE 

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Most of the work is thanks to Bert Pieke and my coworker who adapted Bert's work from the C90GTX.  I'm just the one hosting the file.

[Alessandro91 0]

can i have gtn mod for king air 350i? thanks

 

email: aly.doc23@hotmail.it

[mvanoverdijk 7]

Hey

 

Is there any way I could get this mod as well? my email is vanoverdijkmax@gmail.com 

 

Thanks!

[X24 15]

@ryanbatcundHi Ryan, tried sending you a PM but I guess your Inbox is full

[homer24 0]

@ryanbatcundcan you please send me the GTN 750 Mod for the Carenado B350i?

I cant send you a PM.

Email: roman.24@live.de

Thanks a lot

[ryanbatc 12,857]

My inbox was full again.... PM me if you're still playing P3D/FSX and looking for this mod

[alexcunille 3]

Thanks a lot Ryan, I received the E-mail with the Panel for the B350, Awesome work!