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Daedalus

Intel CPU upgrade from 3rd to 6th gen ?

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Hi all,

 

I am a mainly P3D user, flying all kind of the known heavy add-ons that can put load into a system (ORBX, ASN, PMDG, FSL, paywere scenery). Lately I only run FSX:SE because of the FSL Airbus but soon I'm about to go back to P3D again. I only have one sim installed on my computer at a time, so its difficult for me to compare right now their performance. I recently upgraded my GTX970 for a GTX1070. The performance at FSX:SE is good, but not perfect, I get around 18-28 FPS which is smooth but not as good as 30+. I can notice the difference (I also use TrackIR).

 

My CPU is an Intel i5 3570k overclocked at 4.6Ghz using water cooling. What I am wondering about, is whether an upgrade to an i7 6700k at a similar overclock would yield a significant improvement on performance under P3D. I know that P3D is not so bound to CPU as FSX, but still bound on it at the same time.

 

I have heard that the 6th generation does not bring so much of an improvement over an overclocked 3rd gen system, mainly because the advancements on the skylake are mostly on power consumption and internal graphics. I have no idea how truth this is if I don't see by myself, however to upgrade for an 6700k system (cpu+mobo) I need around 500$ which is not a small investment adding to my recent 1070 upgrade. For example I don't think a performance improvement of 3-5 fps would justify the upgrade as I could lower some settings without sacrificing that much. 

 

I still haven't seen how P3D would handle the new 1070 under the same processor as I am waiting for FSL in P3D to be released to go back.

So I moved from 3570K - GTX970 in P3D to 3570K - 1070 in FSX:SE.

 

Your advice or experience would be tremendously valuable in helping me choose whether it would be worth to upgrade or not my CPU.

 

Thank you very much for your time to read my post!

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What I am wondering about, is whether an upgrade to an i7 6700k at a similar overclock would yield a significant improvement on performance under P3D.

 

 

 

Single core performance = 24% greater.

 

Multi-core performance = 73% greater.

 

 

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-3570K/3502vs1316

 

I have heard that the 6th generation does not bring so much of an improvement over an overclocked 3rd gen system, mainly because the advancements on the skylake are mostly on power consumption and internal graphics.

 

 

 

Well no not really. 24% and 73% respectively are nothing to be sneezed at. The IPC improvement between those two CPU's useful.

 

CPU technology is such that we are pushing the boundaries of what's possible with silicone, so IPC (Instructions Per Cycle) are less than they used to be.

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Ok! Thank you Martin.

 

So that means that I should expect a 73% improvement in FPS in P3D? If that's so, its certainly worth it!

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According to the main rendering FAQ from LM, if you're not getting good performance in P3D, you should upgrade your GPU instead of your CPU. 

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I'm not arguing the fact that the Skylake would be faster than the Ivy bridge..I'm just wondering if the performance spec difference would make a noticable difference in FPS. I remember super smooth youtube videos with the 2500k some years ago and I'm thinking if the 3570K@4.6Ghz is already not enough. Especially after upgrading my GPU to the new 1070. If the FPS increase is more than 20% then it would be certainly worth it. If the gain is 2-3fps in heavy scenery I think its not that necessairy to upgrade.

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Ok! Thank you Martin.

 

So that means that I should expect a 73% improvement in FPS in P3D? If that's so, its certainly worth it!

 

 

Probably closer to the 24%. P3D may be capable of using all cores, but the emphasis is still on the main core.

According to the main rendering FAQ from LM, if you're not getting good performance in P3D, you should upgrade your GPU instead of your CPU. 

 

 

I would dispute that. CPU horsepower is still highly important.

 

If you already have a hefty CPU then yes, GPU is next priority.

 

It may be called P3D instead of FSX, but it hasn't been transformed to the point that it's now GPU biased instead of CPU biased.

 If the FPS increase is more than 20% then it would be certainly worth it. If the gain is 2-3fps in heavy scenery I think its not that necessairy to upgrade.

 

 

I would be expect it to be more than 20%. More than 2-3 FPS, closer to 10 plus I'd say. Plus the 6700K overclocks quite readily to 4.6 GHz. Faster DDR4 RAM etc.

 

Everybody that's upgraded to Skylake that I've seen on the forum has been happy. I'm certainly happy. Came from a 3770K and GTX 770. Now 6700K at 4.6 and GTX 980Ti. Can't give you FPS figures as I'm not simming these days.

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I just did close to the upgrade you're asking about. Do check around the forums here as there are several similar threads.

 

I went from 3770k 4.8Ghz to 6700k 4.7Ghz. Not to mention the RAM changes either (subtimings on the latter are very important). I'm finding a pretty good performance increase that, unlike many others who just throw out random FPS numbers, I can quantify:

 

One of my favorite areas is ORBX's Norcal SF bay area. Combined with Flightbeam's KSFO, man, it's heaven. Frames are bad, though. I won't bore anyone with my setup, CFG file, etc. just know that everything is the same (all of my mods and CFG edits were saved alongside all of my addons on my storage drive). Clear weather, noon, PMDG 777-300ER, sitting on 28L, no AI traffic, I was getting around 17.5 FPS (I use the "AverageFrameRate" entry in one of my CFG "textinfo" lines and just let the sim sit for a couple of minutes). After setting up the new system, I'm getting about 25 FPS in the same exact scenario, an increase of almost 43%. Happy to say the least.

 

This is in line with the benchmark increase I found in XTU. With HT off (you score a little better in XTU with HT off and it's also how I recommend running P3D), I was getting 990 marks. With the new system, ~1470 marks (there's a good bit of fluctuation from test to test). That being said, I was getting nervous because some CPU-oriented benchmarks were not showing such performance increases, e.g. 3DMark11 physics and Cinebench were showing about 10-15% increases. Luckily, I got the XTU increase in P3D.

 

YMMV. Certainly feel free to ask more about my methodology and setup. I'm a bit cuckoo about these things and like to actually measure performance properly.

 

On top of all else, I may actually make a profit on this upgrade too. It's the second time I've sold a Z77 board and I'm not quite sure I understand why they fetch such high prices on eBay (not gonna complain!). My delidded 3770k is also attracting quite a bit of attention as well...

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XTU is better with HT on , and like fast thight mems 2x8gig mems and high uncore.

Run one of the early 6700k close to one year ago with 2x4gig mems at 4.9ghz XTU 1682points

Today if a run it with 2x8 4.9 ghz XTU approx 1750 with H110 and did a cooled one 4 months ago at XTU 2100points

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Thank you very much guys! That is something solid, so its certainly worth the upgrade :) +20% or more improvement is a lot. 

 

Garret, thank you for providing me with specific scenery load and numbers. It's very important to visualize and justify. 

I will contact you for more details if I have more questions about your setup :)

 

Will certainly consider that as a next upgrade..:)

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Probably closer to the 24%. P3D may be capable of using all cores, but the emphasis is still on the main core.

 

 

I would dispute that. CPU horsepower is still highly important.

 

 

 

100% agree.  It does depend on the situation, but P3D isn't some magic bullet that suddenly offloads all the graphics to the GPU.  OCing is still the most helpful thing to do for better performance unless you're running an onboard video

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XTU is better with HT on , and like fast thight mems 2x8gig mems and high uncore.

 

I've found just the opposite with two different chips. My 3770k build was around the mid-950s with HT on and low 990s with it off. Consistently. Very odd.

 

 

Run one of the early 6700k close to one year ago with 2x4gig mems at 4.9ghz XTU 1682points

 

How????????? Were you on a 32-bit OS by any chance? Do you still have the memory timings that you used? I can't crack 1500 to save my life. And that's at 4.7Ghz and 2x8Gb G.Skill Trident X at 3200Mhz, 14-14-14-34-2T and subtimings as low as I can get them. Win7 Pro 64-bit.

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How????????? Were you on a 32-bit OS by any chance? Do you still have the memory timings that you used? I can't crack 1500 to save my life. And that's at 4.7Ghz and 2x8Gb G.Skill Trident X at 3200Mhz, 14-14-14-34-2T and subtimings as low as I can get them. Win7 Pro 64-bit.

Garrett yes think it was a 32bit win10 best for XTU,

Run a XTU on the sim PC at 4.7 as you Win7 64 Pro, no tweaks at all XTU 1637points

Cooling H110 ambient 22c, MoBo Asus Maximus Extreme VIII , TridentZ 3600 C15 binned kit

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/twzci6l0skqy88e/xtu1637.png?dl=0

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Run a XTU on the sim PC at 4.7 as you Win7 64 no tweaks at all XTU 1637points

 

Wow. Ok, I sorta had a hunch that you, along with all of the other folks on HWBot posting huge scores, had some screaming RAM. It aggravated me because a lot of the RAM stats aren't either self-reported or reported by XTU so, as you can imagine, it'd drive you mad if you couldn't figure out how folks with seemingly similar hardware were outscoring the absolute hell out of you.

 

Ok, with that rant out of the way: what RAM (and RAM-related voltages) are you using and are/were the settings you used for that XTU run stable and/or your 24/7 or flightsim settings? Those RAM speeds and timings are insane...

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Yes Its my 24/7 settings for the sim , the CPU is the worst one i have , ram is a good kit have a couple of better kits.

The mems G-Skill TridentZ F4-3600C15D-16GTZ binned number 4 of 30kits

This is run at dramvoltage 1.39v in my option a safe for 24/7 but some can think Its little high.

Not very active this year at Hwbot mostly do tests with my teamate Rauf, tested at least 150 high end mem kits

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Jeez, please sell me one of those kits. Coincidentally, I bought F4-3200C14D-16GTZSK and I can't even get my system to boot on anything more than the XMP with slightly tighter sub-timings (I posted those numbers above). A 1T command rate won't boot under almost any circumstance...

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