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Cessna 441 V1.9 Gauge Differential issue + Gns 530 issue

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Hi,

 

1/I don't know what was fixed in the V1.9 but the gauge differential rate don't work (I think from the day one !)

About the "press source" only the LH works. The RH and Both options don't...

 

Gns 530 :

2/ The turn On terrain don't work anymore (after select Nav Map Page 3, the key "Ent" does nothing !) Worked in the V1.8.

I think there is a glitch with this "Ent" key because it seems don't work with any other option (Example with "Proc" key)

 

3/May be I'm wrong but it seems me that in the V1.8 the HSI CDI followed the GPS flight plan using the GNS 530 !? In the V1.9 it don't.

 

So, please can you fix them.

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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Hi Richard!

 

I just did my first real flight after the 1.9 update:

 

1: I don't know enough about pressurization yet to comment here.

 

2: Terrain display works fine (using ENT on NAV page 3), both in the VC GNS530 and in the popup. Just the brightness is different between both.

 

3: The HSI CDI showed deviation from the GPS flight plan fine. To test this I followed the GPS flight plan using AP in NAV mode, where the CDI bar was in line with the course pointer.

Then I switched to HDG and turned a bit to the left. The CDI bar correctly moved to the right.

After some time I switched back to NAV, the deviation was still shown, but the bar returned to the center position when I reached the flight plan's course.

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Hi Thomas,

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

For problems 2 and 3, it's solved  ! The Cessna don't like to be loaded just from the first Fsx screen (free flight). So, after started the Trike flight, I launched the Cessna, chose the airport and everything went well !

 

Concerning 1, the gauge differential rate (located above the throttle lever) remains at zero during pressurization.

A knob normally allows to increase or decrease the rate (in feet) at which the cabin pressurizes. This knob not appear to be connected to this gauge. So, the gauge stays at zero regardless of the setting during climb or descent.

 

On the other hand the pressure mode selector for selecting the source of air during pressurizing has three positions, one from the left engine, another from the right engine and one for the both. Only the left engine works (the cabine pressurizes), the two others don't.

 

If developpers could fix these few glitches, it would be nice :smile:

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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Hi Richard!

 

For problems 2 and 3, it's solved  ! The Cessna don't like to be loaded just from the first Fsx screen (free flight). So, after started the Trike flight, I launched the Cessna, chose the airport and everything went well !

Loading the 441 and selecting the starting location from the first FSX screen works fine for me, maybe because I have the Trike set as aircraft in the default flight to avoid exactly this kind of problems.

 

Concerning 1, the gauge differential rate (located above the throttle lever) remains at zero during pressurization.

A knob normally allows to increase or decrease the rate (in feet) at which the cabin pressurizes. This knob not appear to be connected to this gauge. So, the gauge stays at zero regardless of the setting during climb or descent.

 

On the other hand the pressure mode selector for selecting the source of air during pressurizing has three positions, one from the left engine, another from the right engine and one for the both. Only the left engine works (the cabine pressurizes), the two others don't.

Yes, the gauge did not move during the flight (or I did not notice it), even with changing pressurization rate and source. But I assume it could be me doing the wrong things, too. So I can neither confirm nor deny that there is a bug :)

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Hi Richard!

 

Loading the 441 and selecting the starting location from the first FSX screen works fine for me, maybe because I have the Trike set as aircraft in the default flight to avoid exactly this kind of problems.

 

I have too the Trike as aircraft in the default flight.

 

I tried again and this time the Gns 530 "terrain" was ok (not every time) but there is one thing I failed to mention in my first post.

The sound of the gyro was on everytime regardless of the state of the battery (on or off). Normally this sound is actived with battery on.

If you have the time, just test and see/ear if the battery sound is on with battery off. If yes, so there is an issue when the Cessna is loaded from the default flight (Fsx first screen).

 

Anyway, no problem if I launch the default flight then I change place and aircraft (Cessna 441). All is fine :smile:

 

Btw, I noticed that some aircrafts like to be loaded from the Fsx first screen, some don't like and some don't care ;-) 

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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My default Trike flight has engine running, so yes, the C441 starts with gyro running, too.
If I want to start cold&dark I just select "All Systems off" in the Shift-1 menu and the Gryo sound will stop after about 10 seconds.
(for aircraft without a cold&dark option I prepare a saved flight in this state)

Then I tried shutting down the C441, switching to the Trike from the in-flight menu (it was turned off, too, just the wind could be heard).
Then I switched back to the C441, everything was off, but the Gyro sound was active for some seconds.
BUT: After turning battery and avionics on, I could not enable terrain view in the GNS530 either!

After going back to the free-flight menu and selecting the 441 there it worked again.
And it worked fine when loading a cold&dark Carenado C337 flight, switching to the C441 and then enabling battery, avionics and GNS.

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I have now tried it with version 1.9:

With LH it shows correct values for cabin altitude and pressure differential.

Cabin rate of climb always shows 0, even if the cabin altitude is changing.

Cabin altitude warning annunciator works though, and with that I was able to verify that pressurization happens with other pressure sources, too (even when turned off), just the two needles in the left gauge don't show anything.

 

I have compared this to the MU-2B version 2.2:

Here it works with all pressure sources, but the cabin rate of climb does not work either.

Cabin altitude warning annunciator works.

 

I looked at Cessna441_interior.mdl and found these two lines:

(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 1 == if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL, Psi) 10 * } els{ 0 }
(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 1 == if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION CABIN ALTITUDE, Feet) 1000 / } els{ 0 }

Maybe it would be enough to change "==" to ">=" to make it work, because 1 is LH, 2 is RH, 3 is BOTH, 4 is GRND, 5 is EMG.

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I tried "1 >=" and cabin altitude and pressure differential needles work in all non-OFF modes.

But as written above, pressurization happens even in OFF mode, so I just changed it to "0 >=" so the needles always show values. I don't think they return to zero in the real plane in OFF mode, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The Cabin rate-of-climb gauge mostly showed 0 during my tests, only in one situation it went to -6000 (and stayed there).

Maybe some variable has to be written to some other variable to trigger displaying a change of this value, but I haven't investigated further.

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Thank you Thomas for your research on this "glitch". Interesting...

 

Maybe the developers could say something about it ? Hello developpers :smile:

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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It would be nice to have an official fix, but Flysimware has already provided so many updates (compared to some other companies) for this older release, and judging by the download statistics of mods/repaints for this aircraft (compared to aircraft from other companies) they have probably have much less sales than them, so I would not blame them if they can no longer invest time (=money) here.

 

But maybe the other C441 release will attract people to this aircraft and then they will look at other implementations, buy the Flysimware C441 and thus generate new motivation to further improve it.

 

I'll see if I could do something about the cabin rate-of-climb thing and maybe even stop pressurization when pressure source is OFF via a small gauge script.

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It would be nice to have an official fix, but Flysimware has already provided so many updates (compared to some other companies) for this older release, and judging by the download statistics of mods/repaints for this aircraft (compared to aircraft from other companies) they have probably have much less sales than them, so I would not blame them if they can no longer invest time (=money) here.

 

But maybe the other C441 release will attract people to this aircraft and then they will look at other implementations, buy the Flysimware C441 and thus generate new motivation to further improve it.

 

I'll see if I could do something about the cabin rate-of-climb thing and maybe even stop pressurization when pressure source is OFF via a small gauge script.

 

Hello Thomas, I'm one of the people that have recently returned to the Flysimware C441 after a couple of years for the reasons you suggest. I have a few questions on different topics, but I'll start fresh topics. 

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I'll see if I could do something about the cabin rate-of-climb thing and maybe even stop pressurization when pressure source is OFF via a small gauge script.

First part is done, Cessna441_interior.mdl contains:

(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 0 > (A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL,Enum) 2 > and if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION CABIN ALTITUDE RATE, ft/min) 200 / 50 + } els{ 50 }

and I changed this to:

(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 9 < (A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL,Enum) 9 < and if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION CABIN ALTITUDE RATE, ft/min) 200 / 50 + } els{ 50 }

The value calculated here feeds the cabin rate-of-climb gauge. 50 is 0, greater than 50 is climbing, lower is descending.

The original code would always result in 50 if L:PRESS_MODE is 0 or A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL is 2 or less.

But I want to see the rate even if pressurization is turned off, so ignore L:PRESS_MODE (all values are less than 9).

And it seems A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL is always 0 (3 would be Engine), but I want to ignore it anyway.

 

I could also do a bigger change and only display values if the battery is on, or engine is running or whatever, but I think this is good enough.

 

Now I just need to get an idea about how the sim or the aircraft code handle the actual pressurization, so I could turn it off if L:PRESS_MODE is 0.

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Now I just need to get an idea about how the sim or the aircraft code handle the actual pressurization, so I could turn it off if L:PRESS_MODE is 0.

and I changed this to:

Wow ... I congratulate every FSX aircraft designer that gets pressurization right.

I just have learned more about the (lack of a good) pressurization model in FSX than I ever wanted to know.

Basically: If you want to do it correct, you have to code it yourself.

One example: You can't set the cabin rate of climb directly, you can only increase it a bit or decrease it a bit. So to set a certain value, you have to read the current value, decide if you have to increase or decrease, increase or decrease a bit, repeat, stop if it is near enough (because you can't reach the exact value).

 

I think with my changes above you already have some moving needles, but things like turning off pressurization or really limiting the pressure differential to 6.3 PSI (not just stopping the needle there) would require more than I'd currently like to do. I have found about 300 lines of code for a jet to do such a thing, maybe I'll return to this topic at some point, but don't hold your breath :smile:

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First part is done, Cessna441_interior.mdl contains:

(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 0 > (A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL,Enum) 2 > and if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION CABIN ALTITUDE RATE, ft/min) 200 / 50 + } els{ 50 }

and I changed this to:

(L:PRESS_MODE,bool) 9 < (A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL,Enum) 9 < and if{ (A:PRESSURIZATION CABIN ALTITUDE RATE, ft/min) 200 / 50 + } els{ 50 }

The value calculated here feeds the cabin rate-of-climb gauge. 50 is 0, greater than 50 is climbing, lower is descending.

The original code would always result in 50 if L:PRESS_MODE is 0 or A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL is 2 or less.

But I want to see the rate even if pressurization is turned off, so ignore L:PRESS_MODE (all values are less than 9).

And it seems A:BLEED AIR SOURCE CONTROL is always 0 (3 would be Engine), but I want to ignore it anyway.

 

I could also do a bigger change and only display values if the battery is on, or engine is running or whatever, but I think this is good enough.

 

Now I just need to get an idea about how the sim or the aircraft code handle the actual pressurization, so I could turn it off if L:PRESS_MODE is 0.

 

THANKS VERY MUCH for this!! You sir are a genious!

  • Upvote 1

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I finally got news of these issues. Some of the issues are actually not an issue.

 

The cabin pressure altitude rate needle and the mode switch are an issue.

I have fixed these today and will have a patch or a update coming soon.

  • Upvote 2

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I finally got news of these issues. Some of the issues are actually not an issue.

 

The cabin pressure altitude rate needle and the mode switch are an issue.

I have fixed these today and will have a patch or a update coming soon.

Thank you very much ! Great support.

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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