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hjsmuc

If you have an issue regarding activation at XA AND you promise to refrain from any trolling and bashing read on...

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Dear fellow simmers, 

 

I thought a while about creating this post and I have discussed the matter with moderators.

 

It has come to my attention that I am not the only customer who seems to be denied product activation at X-Aviation without explanation. While our individual investment in a product may seem to be unimportant and not all cases may be equal, I still believe that it does not do justice to our community if problems like this apparently multiply and the only party which could comment remains silent.

 

Therefore, if you encountered issues with activation denied to you by X-Aviation and if you want to pursue your rights as a group then please answer or PM me. 

 

Please note: The moderators have been kind enough to allow me to post this. They will not hesitate to close this topic and/or ban members if any of us misuses it. Please refrain from any non factual comments, trolling, bashing or excessive language. If you want to be heard, just give the information needed to follow up the claim. 

 

I am still hoping that a dialogue with the developer will be possible. 

 

Hans

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I have a simple question, if this issue is as big as you say it is, why have you not pursued this through other channels?  If you paid with a credit card, could you not speak with your card company to pursue the matter?  If you paid through Paypal, again could you not speak with them about the matter?  Have you also read through the entire EULA from the company, because often times, it's the little things that we tend to overlook that may provide you an answer.

 

I guess I'm not understand what the point would be to rally support for this type of issue against a company's policies, when a more diplomatic approach would be to contact them directly to resolve the issue.

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This is such a sensitive topic that it is being monitored by Avsim staff. I'll just ask people to keep it clean and not attack personally. Thank you

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X-Aviation has always been good to me.  I buy a lot of stuff from them.

 

Bob

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Selling through them Ive inquired on numerous issues that have popped up recently, not all but the vast majority fall into these categories:

 

1.Piracy

2.Not waiting the stated 72hr response time or submitting multiple tickets and getting pushed to the bottom of the list.

3.Issue is resolved, but reply was put into a spam folder.

4.Out right lying, person was either not a customer or they didn't submit a ticket.

 

From what I've seen, and yes I'm very concerned, this issue isn't what people are making it out to be. With that said XA is reworking the system to give users more control over the DRM system and more flexibility when users update and upgrade. This should help vastly speed up the activation process and knock out a bunch of these issues.

 

I will also note I've been selling through XA for about 3 years and change and I've never seen any misdeeds on their behalf.

 

But to play devil's advocate here, with recent growth in the market it's time to update activations for a better overall customer experience.....

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@jspahn Is piracy such a huge problem in X-Plane that such restrictive measures are necessary. ORBX for example (undoubtedly much bigger than XA) have an app that seems quite unrestrictive, i.e. You login, download your purchases and you're good to go (They have nasty traps to catch pirates but it appears to have never hit a paying customer). I changed computers about 5 times, and have no issues. However I no longer can use SMP v4 because I presumably switched from Mac to Windows and it locked me out with no warning)


 

 


4.Out right lying, person was either not a customer or they didn't submit a ticket.

 

This one doesn't surprise me

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Actually incidents of piracy are increasing and yes it's a huge problem....

 

Tony switching doesnt lock you out either you get 3 activations and as long as it's coming out from the same IP you're good, no matter what os you use....Now if you used your 3 activations again submit a ticket and it will be resolved....

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Now if you used your 3 activations again submit a ticket and it will be resolved....

 

That's the problem. It is not getting resolved. In today's world, the IP is changing constantly. How can you have a fixed IP as an ordinary internet user?

 

In general, we wouldn't be here if there had been a communication between the users and the vendor, wouldn't we? All I asked for was an answer to a ticket. Patience is a virtue but at some point in time what are you supposed to do? I raised this topic in good faith to give the "defendant" a chance to chime in and explain. I still seem to miss something. 


 

 


why have you not pursued this through other channels?

 

@Jimm: I have used all other channels before coming here, ticket, Email, post on the dedicated forum. No answer, nothing.

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I like the conversation!  To the point and responsible posts.  Thanks!

 

Best regards,

Jim

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That's the problem. It is not getting resolved. In today's world, the IP is changing constantly. How can you have a fixed IP as an ordinary internet user?

 

In general, we wouldn't be here if there had been a communication between the users and the vendor, wouldn't we? All I asked for was an answer to a ticket. Patience is a virtue but at some point in time what are you supposed to do? I raised this topic in good faith to give the "defendant" a chance to chime in and explain. I still seem to miss something. 

 

 

@Jimm: I have used all other channels before coming here, ticket, Email, post on the dedicated forum. No answer, nothing.

Let's see a ticket number and let's find out what's going on :)

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you get 3 activations and as long as it's coming out from the same IP you're good, no matter what os you use.

 

 

This 'tech' needs to be updated. Yes, with sticky DHCP from most ISPs there's a good chance you'll get the same IP address but absolutely not a guarantee. At one point over a span of 11 days I had received 6 different IP addresses (usually about every 41 hours) from Comcast. Ultimately locking me out of Active Sky, for example. Despite the fact that the computer and location never changed.

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Let's see a ticket number and let's find out what's going on :)

Mine is #BHY96

 

At first I got a quick response:

 

 

 

Sounds like you dragged the plugin over from one X-Plane install to

another. You need to re-install with the installer.

 

Best Regards, Cameron

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:23 PM, X-Aviation Support

 

 

 

That made sense to me. But after following this advice the activation slots were used up. And that's where the issue started. 

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Oh I want to add I'm somewhat wrong about the IP address, it checks a few things....

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.Now if you used your 3 activations again submit a ticket and it will be resolved....

 

I have a dynamic IP address, so maybe that's the problem

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I'm in the same boat, although I have had great experience purchasing at XA in the past, the last time I have asked for reactivation through the ticket system, I never got a response back, its been more than 72hrs,  actually, its been more than 2 months now.

 

This is one reason why I've hesitated to purchase SMP upgrade, what's the point.

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It's late on my side of the planet and I am going to call it a day. Thanks for all the reasonable input so far. From what I understand, we seem to have a conflict between the legitimate right of a developer to protect its intellectual property and the right of the legitimate user to enjoy the product bought. Maybe this gives hope to find a way to a solution, in which case I would be happy to have started this initiative. 

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I have a dynamic IP address, so maybe that's the problem

 

Me too.   I understand ISPs with dynamic IP addresses are very common in Europe but much less so in North America.  Perhaps this is why XA are so 'suspicious'. But in fact, 32% of all broadband users in the UK use BT Internet - which uses dynamic IPs.

 

Perhaps that is the reason my request for re-activation of the IXEG was completely ignored.  No responses.   Raised first ticket, waited 6 days, no reply, raised 2nd ticket, no reply.

 

I took a look at the XA forum and to be honest, saw that everyone who was reporting such issues were either subtley or blatently being suspected for pirating the software.  I decided not to even go there, and didn't join the support forum.    I've gotten to 53 years of age without ever even thinking about piracy - I'm not about to start now!

 

Personally, I take a bit of a "life's too short" approach to problems and people like this.  I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

There are so many great products available across the 2 platforms I use (FSX:SE and XP10). I simply vote with my wallet.       I do find it quite shocking to have spent $74.95, and only installed the product once previously.

 

If the IXEG was for sale elsewhere, I'd consider "re" buying it.

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Personally, I take a bit of a "life's too short" approach to problems and people like this.  I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

I can understand that, I'd feel that way too. I've bought several X-Aviation products over the years -- the MU-2, the Falco (no longer supported), the great LES DC-3, and stayed on board through the various updates of SkyMaxx Pro and RWC including the current version. I've never had any trouble moving this stuff to new computers, but then I don't do that often, so I guess I've never hit an activation limit. Or a new version was updated that reset the counter.

 

But if I ever have an activation hassle, I can walk away from all of that. Although... the LES DC-3 would be tough. It's the only really good model we have in X-Plane of that iconic plane (sigh).

 

Anyway, I support the right of developers to use DRM, but not when it tilts too far to the benefit of the developer over legitimate purchasers. I hope everyone here who has had problems gets their issues ironed out, and I'll help support them by being cautious about recommending X-Aviation products until support seems more reliable.

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I have a simple question, if this issue is as big as you say it is, why have you not pursued this through other channels? If you paid with a credit card, could you not speak with your card company to pursue the matter? If you paid through Paypal, again could you not speak with them about the matter?

 

The issue here Jim is that, many do not encounter such re-activation issues until quite a long period of time has passed since purchase.   Credit Card and PayPal providers both have a 'cut off' timescale, after which claims cannot be made.  I investigated this with my own CC provider and was told that as 13 months had passed since my purchase, I had no recourse.

 

So the de facto position for me was, I paid $74.95, got one install, and then no further ability to reinstall beyond that one initial download.  (X-Aviation's download links expire after 6 months....or at least they did for this product.  Hence the need to request a reactivation for product download links).

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I guess my history is fairly typical. I clicked on the download link twice by accident when reinstalling. The internet was slow that day and that used up my 3 downloads. I had the software (IXEG, I think) and was fine, but thought I should reset the download just in case. I used the system to ask for a reset, but it never happened.

 

Eventually an upgrade came along and that reset the download count, so I was never without the product I paid for. But the original download counter was never reset despite me following the system.

 

I am in Australia and we use pretty much all dynamic IPs here. It can change at any time, so any system that uses an IP address for checking is going to fail. The problem seems to be that you are deemed to be a pirate unless you can prove otherwise.

 

I only see this from my side of the fence, but the piracy problem in XP seems to be tiny. Unless these files are on the Dark Web they must be very well hidden as I have never seen any around. But that is only me.

 

Anyway, hopefully the right people are listening and take this feedback in the right spirit.

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Our experience with this is exactly the same as jspahn.  

As for the IP thing, as far as I know, the security system tracks machine ID so that is not the case.

 

That being said, the reset time/system at the moment is too slow and unnecessary complicated, therefore XA

is working on a new system to make life easier for everyone (except pirates)

 

We are also considering a tougher approach on those caught pirating and starting "fake news" topics, and we might

also seek closer cooperation with sites like Avsim and .org sharing information to expose these guy's which are costing XP developers and vendors

huge sums every year. 

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That being said, the reset time/system at the moment is too slow and unnecessary complicated, therefore XA
is working on a new system to make life easier for everyone (except pirates)

 

This is good news. I want to install my Saab again :)


 

 


We are also considering a tougher approach on those caught pirating and starting "fake news" topics, and we might
also seek closer cooperation with sites like Avsim and .org sharing information to expose these guy's which are costing XP developers and vendors
huge sums every year. 

 

I saw enough of this on some of the X-Plane Facebook groups and have even seen respected members and some developers abusing the system, so I can understand XA's stance on this. It's one of the reasons I avoid those groups now. Anyway, I hope they find a way to protect developers but not punish legitimate users who just want to use those products.

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I decided to cut my losses, and not get overly upset by it.

 

You're a wise man.

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Hello all.  Thank you for your inputs.

 

There is quite a lot going on in the background with regards to what is factual and what is not regarding XA activites and license resets.  I occasionally work from X-Aviation offices and I have personally seen what goes on in the background with regards to customer support.  X-Aviation has one of the more sophisticated DRM systems available, which plainly indicates when 'sharing' is taking place.  Many other distributors do not and so of course there's no issue at those spots.  When folks get called out on it by XA (average of 8-10 times a day), they tend to get a bit hostile and embarassed and frequently lash out in forums...and with no posting priveleges at x-plane.org, we can't respond at that venue and the complaints can appear to pile up.  Also, I've seen at least 3 well-known, old-timer X-Plane communty users get caught and admit to it...but of course XA privacy policy doesn't allow us to lay those cards on the table.  

 

I'm completely sure that some honest folks get caught up, and its due to varied issues, but I stand by my claim and by X-Aviation that it is a significant minority of those who publicly claim lack of service from XA on the forums.  I fully understand how those honest folks absolutely loathe getting caught up and get very angry.....I've been that guy.  I know when I lose airline luggage I want the airline to stop all flights and get every employee to bow down to me and find my luggage.   But it is challenging with 9 out of 10 people incensed that they're 'caught up'....and 9 of them are confirmed pirates.   It means the one honest one will probably have to fight that much harder to get heard. and that is unfortunate and undesired and we do deal with that as best we can.  The old adage, "a few people ruin it for everybody" certainly has some applicability.   The ability to 'hide' behind PMs and forum posts makes folks a bit more bolder also.   

 

We designed the license system based on sound data about typical customer hardware usage and noting that "the squeeky wheel gets the grease", most don't see the 95% of satisfied customers XA has because they're too busy flight simming to complain.   I myself have concerns over DRM...I'm an old timer and mostly like my software nice and privately on my own hard drive, but times are changing and I've had to adopt it for most of the professional software tools I use.  I'm finding it's not the end of the world.

 

IXEG understands that you can't please everybody, and the team are old enough geezers to just accept it as "the way it is" and why we are mostly quiet on the subject,  but with the increase of the X-Plane Market share and the increase in sales of the 737, it is simply a numbers game that as the market goes up,  so too will the vocalizations by customers.   As such, we expect from time to time to have to clarify our position for current and future customers.

 

We are looking into license management considerations while protecting our business at the same time.  We understand a few honest folks can get caught up....but we also understand the absolute majority of public complaints are by known pirates...not suspected, known... with hard data.  We cannot make this data public as it violates privacy, which is of utmost priority.  We understand this is natural grounds for skepticism....but oh well.   We do take the valid complaints seriously, do not dismiss them and will strive to improve.  The tech is challenging to architect and also to implement and so does not happen overnight, but our desire to make sure all our honest customers are satisfied is very much intact.  We apologize to those that do get caught up, we've been there too.

 

Tom Kyler

IXEG

 

 

 

 

 

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