Gregg_Seipp

JustFlight PA-28R Arrow released

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An impressive set of features...

 

MODEL

  • Accurately modelled PA-28R-201 Arrow III, built using real-world aircraft plans
  • Numerous animations including passenger door, baggage door, cockpit window, sun visors and oil cover
  • Ground equipment including chocks and tie-downs
  • 4096 x 4096 textures are used to produce the highest possible texture clarity
  • Bump and specular mapping used throughout the aircraft to produce a truly 3D feel
COCKPIT
  • A truly 3D virtual cockpit right down to accurately modelled seat belts and screw heads - every instrument is constructed fully in 3D with smooth animations
  • Cockpit textures feature wear and tear based on reference photos taken in the real aircraft to produce an authentic environment
  • Interactive checklists for every stage of flight
  • Panel state system which will automatically save the panel state whenever a flight is saved and reload the panel state whenever that flight is loaded
  • Aircraft configuration system that will allow you to choose between 'cold & dark' or 'ready for take-off'
  • Fully functional and comprehensive IFR capable avionics fit including:

     - KMA 20 audio selector unit

     - KX 170B COM 1 / NAV 1 radio

     - KX 175B COM 2 / NAV 2 radio

     - KN 62 DME unit which can display information from NAV 1, NAV 2 or its own inbuilt receiver (NAV 3)

     - Piper Autocontrol IIIB autopilot unit with navigation, heading and roll hold

     - KT 76A transponder unit

     - KR 85 ADF unit with ADF/ANT/BFO modes

     - GPS 100 unit

  • Interactive logbook panel for logging your flight details
  • Flight computer panel with useful information such as fuel burn, endurance, speed and wind speed/direction
  • Yoke-mounted flight timer/clock
  • Independently operated left and right (standby) altimeter
  • Flight1 GTN integration in the virtual cockpit (Flight1 GTN sold separately)
AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS
  • Custom-coded fuel system including the option to have automatic switching of the fuel tanks for use on those long distance cross-country flights
  • Custom-coded electrical system with functional circuit breakers
  • Realistic landing gear system with emergency release
  • Functioning alternate air and static source controls
  • Failures including spark plug fouling, limited battery life, vapour lock and more
LIVERIES

 

The aircraft is supplied in the following 11 paint schemes:

  • G-BGKU (UK)
  • C-GQYI (Canada)
  • N4131C (USA)
  • G-BNSG (UK)
  • F-GJCB (France)
  • HB-PJA (Switzerland)
  • VH-SGE (Australia)
  • D-ERIN (Germany)
  • G-TEBZ (UK)
  • G-TSGA (UK)
  • N751LU (USA)
OTHER
  • Realistic and accurate flight dynamics based on real world performance and handling data, and input from Arrow pilots
  • Authentic sound set by Turbine Sound Studios (TSS)
  • Custom sounds for switches, doors, gear warnings and more
  • Comprehensive manual with panel guide and performance data
They should add a feature so it could take a GNS 430/530 as well.

 

https://www.justflight.com/product/pa28r-arrow-iii?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PA-28R%20Arrow%20III%20-%20Download%20now%20on%20sale&utm_content=PA-28R%20Arrow%20III%20-%20Download%20now%20on%20sale+CID_d0f3be20638251869f7bd5cef83730d7&utm_source=cm&utm_term=PA-28R%20Arrow%20III

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Hi Folks,

 

So where does JF fit in to the quality spectrum today ? I had their Duchess years ago and it was a nice start with several glaring deficiencies - like no GPS and some flight model issues... Honestly - I'd love to see that plane done to today's standards...

 

The pictures of the Arrow look good...

 

Regards,

Scott

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There's a youtube video that shows some of the features.
 


 
I'd wonder about the flight model more than anything else.  I bet there are some folks here on the forum that flew the Arrow II or III that would be eager to give a mini review.  I flew Warriors and Archers.  We had a II at our club but I never flew it.  I'd say it's pretty important that they allow a 530 mod in the cockpit as well.  A 750 is pretty over the top, isn't it?

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So where does JF fit in to the quality spectrum today ?

 

Depends on whether the addon was built by  Aeroplane Heaven or their in house team.

The in house stuff is very good, the Canberra is very detailed, but the Aeroplane Heaven stuff is not that great.

This Arrow is by their in house team.

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Here's a Arrow II that's available near me.  Doesn't look nearly as vintage as the III they modelled...

 

Arrow.Side.jpg

 

Arrow.Cabin.jpg

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I have been looking forward to this one as this model aircraft is on my shortlist for a purchase IRL. Bought it first thing this morning and just made my first flight in  it (PAKT -> CZST) and I must say I am impressed. I have not flown the real thing yet, so I can't comment on how characteristics compare, but it is a fun fly and so far seems to match the book numbers. I am putting this one up there just below my A2A Comanche on my list of favorites. I really like the fact that JustFlight let's you change radio config from inside the aircraft. I was able to go between stock and my GTN 750 without having to run an installer or outside config tool. The flight dynamics feel more like a stock aircraft and that is why I would still rate the Comanche a little higher. Nonetheless, it's a great addition for us GA guys. 

 

Now if MilViz would release that Beaver my virtual hangar would feel complete. 

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I have quite a bit of time in both the Turbo Arrow III and IV (which I owned), but no time in the normally aspirated variants which feature a completely different engine and cowl.

 

I was a bit put off by the extremely worn cockpit they chose to model which appears to be based on an (very!) well-used flight school plane.  A version more like what Gregg shows here would have been far more attractive to me, particularly with the modestly updated avionics.

 

Agree that allowing a 430 and/or 530 would've been nice.  The larger GTN just doesn't fit in with this plane to my eye/mind, though the smaller one wouldn't overpower things I guess.

 

Just not sure about this one, but if someone ever did a well-modeled Turbo Arrow IV...

 

Scott

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Hi Folks,

 

From a GA buyers perspective - the T tailed turbo would have been a bit more intriguing...

 

Yeah - I'm contemplating picking up the F1 GNS (now that I know it's a drop in replacement for RXP in P3D) - as I'm about GTN'd out... I still haven't actually seen a GTN in person and I'm at then airport all the time - LOL - maybe I just hang with the poor crowd...

:)

 

Thanks for the PIREP Brad - makes it sound a bit more interesting...

 

Regards,

Scott

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Hi chaps,

 

bradwoo10 - Glad to hear that you are enjoying it! It's been an enjoyable aircraft to produce.

 

A few points based on what's been mentioned here:

 

  • We are looking at integrating the Flight1 GNS 430 and 530. The GTN was picked first as it appears to be more widely owned/used by simmers at the moment.
  • Our aircraft is an exact replica of an Arrow III that belongs to my flying club - hence the wear and tear. Picking a local aircraft gives us the ability to climb all over it and take hundreds of photos, and the end result is a far more accurate/realistic aircraft. I appreciate that some people like worn and torn aircraft and others prefer something newer/cleaner like an A2A aircraft, but we enjoyed creating something with plenty of character (as much as is possible for a PA28!)
  • This was an entirely in-house project, apart from the sound-set which was produced by TSS (we have added other custom sounds though)
  • The FDE was created with close cooperation from a real world Arrow pilot
  • The Duchess was released back in 2009, so the Duchess and Arrow are quite literally years apart in terms of detail and functionality  :smile:

 

Thanks

Martyn - JF Arrow dev

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I was a bit put off by the extremely worn cockpit they chose to model which appears to be based on an (very!) well-used flight school plane.

 

Yeah, I'd like to see them clean it up a bit, add the 430/530 as an option.  Overall, if you imagine the grime away, they did a really nice job of modelling the equipment.  I'd want to see the attitude in slow flight and when landing...in the Archer/Warrior you bring the nose up about even with the horizon and hold it there letting speed bleed off.  I'm guessing to expect the same for the Arrow?  Also, it seems like a small leap to model the IV from this?  As I said elsewhere, this is the first quality complex 1970s+ GA we've seen in a long, long time. 


Hi chaps,

 

bradwoo10 - Glad to hear that you are enjoying it! It's been an enjoyable aircraft to produce.

 

A few points based on what's been mentioned here:

 

  • We are looking at integrating the Flight1 GNS 430 and 530. The GTN was picked first as it appears to be more widely owned/used by simmers at the moment.
  • Our aircraft is an exact replica of an Arrow III that belongs to my flying club - hence the wear and tear. Picking a local aircraft gives us the ability to climb all over it and take hundreds of photos, and the end result is a far more accurate/realistic aircraft. I appreciate that some people like worn and torn aircraft and others prefer something newer/cleaner like an A2A aircraft, but we enjoyed creating something with plenty of character (as much as is possible for a PA28!)
  • This was an entirely in-house project, apart from the sound-set which was produced by TSS (we have added other custom sounds though)
  • The FDE was created with close cooperation from a real world Arrow pilot
  • The Duchess was released back in 2009, so the Duchess and Arrow are quite literally years apart in terms of detail and functionality  :smile:

 

Thanks

Martyn - JF Arrow dev

 

Hi Martyn,

 

I actually got a big nice feeling seeing someone has actually made a nice complex finally.  Gosh, it's just...rare...and I hope it catches fire.  I can very much appreciate the accurate modelling of an existing plane is a great idea!  I do think Scott's and my thoughts about, perhaps, making a cleaner 'livery' would be nice and a turbo charged version would be big, despite the mixture bug in P3D that we hope will, someday, be addressed.  Very, very happy to see you're working on 530/430 integration!  This looks like a great airplane for flying Orbx regions and family cross countries. 

 

Gregg

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Hi Gregg,

 

I'll certainly look into what'd be required for a Turbo variant.

 

Is it the T-tail or turbo that is of particular interest, as the PA-28R-201T Turbo Arrow III appears to be much the same as our existing Arrow III, but the PA-28RT-201 Arrow IV would obviously require the addition of the T-tail configuration.

 

Thanks

Martyn

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Hi,

 

that looks really good!

 

I would also appreciate an option to integrate the Flight1 GNS 430/530. Would it maybe also possible to release a texture set without the heavy wear and tear in the cockpit? Then we could simulate a well maintained, privately owned Piper Arrow III as well. Just like the one in Gregg's great pictures :smile:

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We are looking at integrating the Flight1 GNS 430 and 530. The GTN was picked first as it appears to be more widely owned/used by simmers at the moment.

 

Hi Martyn,

this is very encouraging. While I also own the GTN 750, I confess I always prefer the GNS alternative whenever possible for such GA aircraft, as I find it more realistic. The integration of the Flight GNS 430/530 might really convince me to purchase this addon.

 

And... any chance you to do the same for your Socata TB20/21? I am missing the GNS option there too.

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Yes, we'd most likely integrate the GNS' back into the TB10/TB20 if they were created for use in the Arrow III.

 

Thanks

Martyn

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It looks great; I'm going to pick it up now. May I ask which year is modelled? Also, are the stock avionics accurate to the actual aircraft? I prefer the authenticity to the everything that moves gets a GTN750 movement.

 

Hats off to Gregg Seipp for sharing the initial info.

 

Les Parson

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Hi Les,

 

It's based on G-BGKU - a PA-28R-201 which was built in 1978.

 

Everything is authentic, exactly as found in the real aircraft, apart from the fact that the avionics actually function correctly  :wink:

 

Thanks

Martyn

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So where does JF fit in to the quality spectrum today ? I had their Duchess years ago and it was a nice start with several glaring deficiencies - like no GPS and some flight model issues... Honestly - I'd love to see that plane done to today's standards...

Scott

The other day I checked my Just Flight account on their website, and there are I think about 45 download products that I've bought from them over the years (dating back to I think 2009), and this doesn't include any boxed versions of stuff, a few of which I've also had off them over the years too, so I guess I'm as qualified to comment on their stuff as anyone...

 

First up, I'll own up to the fact that, with Just Flight being a British developer and me being a Brit too, I've always kind of had a soft spot for them anyway, so I'll admit that I may be just a tiny bit biased, or at least may appear so. But having said that, I've never bought anything off them for solely flag-waving reasons, it's always been because it was a product I wanted, and this is kind of an important point where JF's products are concerned, because a lot of them are more European - and often more out and out 'English' - in focus than what you'd typically see from a lot of other developers, so I suspect this is more where my preference for their stuff stems from, rather than any mere blind patriotism, because obviously, I'm going to be keen on stuff that relates more to what I know a lot of the time. Keep this in mind where their GA stuff is concerned, they often access a locally available GA aeroplane for development research, which means it is likely to have an avionics fit typically found on an aircraft based in the UK, as evidenced by the Golf registration you usually find in their paint jobs.

 

So, when they produce stuff like the de Havilland Comet, de Havilland Dove, Vickers Viscount etc, it always piques my interest and is pretty much a no brainer purchase for me, but I think it would be disingenuous of anyone to claim that those products are in same the league as some of what we might call the stratospherically high regard developers, although to be fair, they have an accordingly lower price because of that. Good examples of this would be their Constellation when compared to the A2A Connie; the JF one is 20 quid, the A2A one is 40 quid, so literally twice the price, similarly, their DC-6 is 20 quid, the PMDG X-plane DC-6 is about 55 quid, so nearly three times the price.

 

Now, we can weigh up whether we think the JF Connie is only half as good a simulation as the A2A one, or whether we think the PMDG DC-6 is three times better than the JF one, and I would say that if we want to talk about the levels of system detail they go into, in many cases it is at least true to say the more expensive versions generally have a bit more going on systems-wise, and in many cases also have nicer texturing. But if for example we look at the JF Connie, it is actually pretty damn good systems-wise and not desperately different to what the A2A one does in many respects, so I think we're into the main difference being the texturing (which is undeniably much nicer on the A2A Connie), but flight-wise, if you have the A2A global Accusim add on, that will effectively 'Accusimise' that JF Connie, so even if you bought that JF Connie and the Accusim global add-on, you'd still be paying less than if you just bought the A2A Connie alone, and of course you'd also have the benefit of that Accusim add on jazzing up all your other FS add-on aeroplanes. Not to mention the fact that we are not exactly swamped by airworthy Constellation variants, so neither developer was able to create their flight model from pretty much anything other than anecdotal data. But, I will say that it is a case of 'you are getting what you pay for' with many of JF's airliners, and I don't mean that as a slight, i.e. they're good, they work and they look nice, but if you are expecting a 'nerd level' simulation, you might want to look elsewhere if mega-realistic airliners are your bag. But it is a different story with their recent GA output...

 

Onto the PA-28 and JF GA aeroplanes. It's very evident to me from more recent GA releases from Just Flight that they are upping their game somewhat. I think it is fair to say that their older 'Flying Club' GA aircraft add-ons, which date from a few years back, were what most people regarded as acceptable rather than stunning, they date from a time when many FS add-ons were either hybrid FS9/FSX products, or ports over to FSX. But these days flight simmers expect a little more, and so anything to that standard is in the 'cheap and cheerful bracket' these days and really should not be commanding a price tag over about ten quid. So if you are going to buy any Just Flight GA aeroplanes, keep that in mind with their older stuff, which to be fair, you will see being sold at a correspondingly lower price. Their more recent efforts are in the 25 quid price bracket.

 

So let's look at a more current JF GA product; their recent Aerospatiale/Socata Trinidad and Tobago add on (costs 27 quid). Spec-wise in terms of systems simulation and content, it is very obviously near-identical to this new PA-28 developmental ethos, with the same failure/wear and tear simulations, the same external monitoring module, same high-res texturing standards, same detailed avionics modeling, similar third-party avionics integration, similar 'pro' audio etc. Thus their new Socata is an improvement in leaps and bounds not only for themselves as a developer, but also over the old Lionheart Socata (which if any of you had, you will know was pretty good).

 

This means we can see that there has been quite a developmental evolution at Just Flight when we compare their older output to contemporary efforts. I certainly found that to be the case when I cranked up their new Socata, it is every bit as good as pretty much any other GA simulated FS aeroplane you can find out there, and given that JF are invariably accessing a real aircraft based in the UK when they make stuff like their Socata and this new PA-28, I think we can, these days at least, add them to the list of developers that are entirely worthy of serious consideration when it comes to GA aeroplanes.

 

Not only that, but a couple of other nice things about them, is that their support forums are good (I've had support replies off them on Christmas Day in the past - I'm not joking), they have a nice loyalty discounting system (i.e. if you buy something from them, you'll get about two quid off your next purchase, or you can save the points and add them all up to eventually end up paying nothing for one of their products if you have enough points saved). Moreover, there is none of that 'your download is no longer available, please give us another fiver to 'activate' it' nonsense. I can still download stuff from them I bought nearly ten years ago, which incidentally, is why I bought all my FlySimWare add-ons (LearJet 35, Bell Sioux, Cessna 441) from the Just Flight website, and would choose to do so with any other stuff even if it was a couple of quid dearer than other online retailers (other online stores take note!).

 

The support, the accessibility of your purchased products and the discounting system they offer are a lot of the reasoning behind why I rate Just Flight, and now of course, it is also because they are knocking out some really great GA aeroplanes. I will certainly be buying their Arrow based on my experiences with their Socata (which I've been flying all over Europe in FSX-SE recently), because if that is anything to go by, I know their Piper will be an absolutely crackingly good simulation of the real aeroplane.

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I'll certainly look into what'd be required for a Turbo variant.



Is it the T-tail or turbo that is of particular interest, as the PA-28R-201T Turbo Arrow III appears to be much the same as our existing Arrow III, but the PA-28RT-201 Arrow IV would obviously require the addition of the T-tail configuration.



Thanks

 

Hi Martyn,

 

Thanks for being open to suggestions - that says a lot and certainly gets me more interested in this model.

 

From my perspective as a former owner/pilot of the PA28RT-201T (Turbo Arrow IV with T-tail) obviously that would be my personal preference, but I'd be happy with a well-implemented Turbo Arrow III as well.  Note that properly done, either would require some modification other than just performance issues and minor gauge mods.  As I mentioned before, the Turbo Arrow has a significantly different cowling to accommodate the 6 cyl Continental rather than the 4 cyl Lycoming of the normally aspirated version.

 

The T-tail also changes the flying characteristics a bit, so I expect you wouldn't want to go down that road unless you had someone with recent T-tail time.

 

I understand completely why you chose the cockpit you did, as good access to a representative plane trumps all else.

 

Again, thanks for being so open to some of our comments!

 

Scott

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Just picked mine up and overall I am impressed so far. I would like to see more US tail numbers that are not flight school related and a interior not so worn out but overall I like it!

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As to the comments on the well worn interior.....I flew for a living for 40 years of which almost half was rotary wing. Some of the Jetrangers I flew looked like a disaster both from exterior paint and interior wear but they flew like a million dollars. I remember one in particular when assigned it, looked in the logbook and saw total time well into five figures (it was under 15 years old) , went out to the ramp to take it over, shuddered at the paint and again when I got into it and examined the interior and then an absolute feeling of delight when I took off. It was magnificent. I suspect this Arrow will be the same.

Dave

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I said a month ago I'd buy this on Day one, and actually I bought it within 5 minutes of receiving the subscribers email for it, announcing release :smile:

 

I absolutely love it.  

 

There is no comparison between the quality of this (2017) product, and JFs old "flying school" aircraft like the old Archer, Duchess, Tomahawk, etc.   It's night and day.

 

Personally I love the wear and tear because I know it comes from modelling an exact real life version of the aircraft.

 

Texturing is fantastic, sounds are great, and to me, it flies beautifully.  I'm having some fun with the old GPS100 unit for now but will shortly change over to the GTN750 option.

 

My advice -->  like GA singles?   Just buy it !!

 

PS..... support and openness/responsiveness from the JF team is first rate; as we saw with the TB10/20 development.

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 " I'm having some fun with the old GPS100 unit for now but will shortly change over to the GTN750 option."

 

If you find the trick to integrate the GTN 750 in the VC like the picture in page 46 of the manual, please tell me! I opened a topic for that at JustFlight forum :wink:

 

Regards

 

Pat

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PS..... support and openness/responsiveness from the JF team is first rate; as we saw with the TB10/20 development.

 

This is actually pushing me towards a buy decision, as this is the kind of developer I want to support.

 

I probably won't last the day, now.  :-)

 

Scott

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Kerching! Yup, it's another sale to me from JF of their PA-28 (was always gonna buy it anyway, since it is one of my fave GA aeroplanes).

 

See? I don't just wait for free stuff from JF in return for doing a review lol! Although as noted the other day, I am currently doing an Avsim review of JF's Hawker Hunter for anyone who is interested in something a bit faster than their GA aeroplanes. Contrary to what some people might imagine, I usually end up buying things like the official Pilot's Notes and other research books whenever I do things like that, so it usually ends up costing me money anyway. So much for freebies when you do a review lol. And on the subject of spending/saving money...

 

Avsimmers who like a bit of a bonus might like to note that, as was the case with their Hunter release the other day, if you buy it quickly (before March 6 in the case of the PA-28), they throw you double loyalty bonus points, so that'd be a few quid off the price of their Socata or Hunter or whatver if you wanted something else from them, and they do sell other stuff apart from their own, so that includes A2A stuff, Aerosoft stuff, FlySimWare etc.

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